[Mike Barrio]

Hi folks

I have been very disappointed to find more than one angler fishing with "propellor flies" and metal "fly spoons" recently and the anglers concerned were fully aware that these were not allowed at Haddo ............... So why were they using them?

And just before I get off my soap box ........ I am told that more than one local tackle shop is selling them, in amongst all the other fishery type flies that they stock ? Why? ..... These are not allowed in any of the local fisheries.

Mike

[Jay Scott]

Hi Mike,

We sell them in Sloans not too sure why though don't sell too many  i'll try to make it aware to some customers 

Cheers,

Jay

[Hamish Young]

Hmmmm - not good, seem to recall seeing these 'flies' for sale in more than one well established tackle emporium in the NE  The only conclusion I can draw is that some folk are simply too lazy to learn to fish imaginatively and resort to these desperate tactics  

Whilst the fly-spinner hybrids have been around for a long time (and one could reasonably argue that certain developments in tube fly design within the salmon fishing world are pushing the limits of what can still be called a fly) it is perhaps time these hybrids were removed from tackle shop shelves once and for all.

[goosander]

Trout and Salmon magazine had some photos of ones made at the start of the 19th century so they have been around for a long time. Personly i do not understand why people [not going to call them anglers] find that they have to break the rules just to catch a fish. It seems pointless to me.
Salmon fishing is a diffrent ball game and tubes replace spinners for those of us who like to wander about with a fly rod.

[Jim Eddie]

Some folks , are just to competetive , Alpha Male stuff. They seem to think that if AN Other catches a dozen fish , they should to and will do at all costs.

Sad but true. They totally miss the point , thats is not what fishing is about.  At the end of the day its themselves they are cheating.

 

Jim

[Che]

Why would you bother, you must surely be better off with a baitbox full of worms or a pint of maggots 

[Iain Goolager]

Why would anyone want to hurl those monstrosities about? You've more chance of catching your nugget than a fish.

Innovation's a great thing but ignorance is not - anyone blatantly flouting any fisheries' rules should be read the riot act.

An act like this speaks volumes for the integrity of the 'angler' - I'll wager that they've lots of other sinister traits - never debarbed a hook after the bag limit for example. If it looks like s**t and it smells like s**t, etc.


I'm a fair man though and if YOU are reading this then please don't be afraid to ask for help - there are lots of guys to help with both fly and method selection.

onwards and upwards.

Iain

[kenny]

 Hi Folks

was at haddo today and when we put the boat along side the bank to go for lunch ( due to weather ) i noticed a metal "fly spoon " attached to the anchor so I snipped it off and took it back to mike. I think that any one using these things on any fishery should be banned at once and there name circulated among the fisherys.

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Kenny

Welcome to the forum

Yes, thanks for that, there was one on Ross's anchor yesterday too.

This is the secret folks ........ don't leave it up to the fishery manager to sort these folk out, your help is very much appreciated and I know that many of you are keen to look after your local fishery and your local fish

Thanks again
Best wishes
Mike

[Hamish Young]

As the fishery manager Mike what's your views on other anglers 'challenging' those who are obviously breaking the rules
It'd piss me off no end to see it being done and I'd be inclined to say something if I saw it but some guidance from individual fisheries on 'what to do if you see a rule breaker' might be prudent and useful for this topic 

[Mike Barrio]

Good point Hamish

Yes ....... No challenging please.

I would suggest that a trip to the hut for a cuppa ( or a call of nature ) and a quiet word in the manager's ear would be the best thing to do if you see somebody doing something like this, rather than waiting till the end of the day. This way the manager can keep an eye on the angler concerned for a while and make a decision about speaking to them based on what he sees.

This way the angler will not know that you have brought it to the manager's attention and nor will anybody else.

This also gives the manager a chance to work out if the angler is perhaps a learner who might appreciate a little help and guidance or somebody that obviously knows what they are doing and should be asked to leave.

This would be great thanks
Best wishes
Mike

[Tam Greenock]

I remenber when working at Bangour Fishery a few years ago we tried out a spinner that we confiscated and it was devastating,we nipped of the hook at the bend and nearly every second cast was a take. 

[Mike Barrio]

The problem with these things, as you will know Tam, is the damage they do when swallowed, when the "angler" gets broken or the knot slips

Mike

[Sandy Nelson]

Cow pie

 

[Rob Brownfield]

Hmmmm...and now for something completely different 

Firstly, Hardy were selling and making "propeller" flies back in the 1800's....Arnt Hardy the ultimate fly fishing company 

I am a little supprised that Mike thinks the flicker spoons does damage. The hook is, what, about a size 10? Same size as many "lures" used by anglers, so surely there is no difference in the potential damage caused to a fish if broken off?

Also, whats the difference between using a flicker spoon on a fly rod to using a fly such as a blob, that contains no natural material and is really designed to be an artificial bait rather than a water bourne creature?

Is it because its seen as spinning and therefore treated with disdain by fly anglers?..even though it is fished on fly gear?

Is it banned on many waters because it is too successful?

and finally....if it is against the fishery rules, then my stance is the person should be asked to leave in no uncertain terms 


 

[Iain Goolager]

A up Roberto,

Flickers and prop flies are spinners it matters not (to me) how you deploy them.............just as much as worming/ maggoting with a fly rod and floating line is still bait fishing.

Also...... BAN THE BLOB! BAN THE LURES! Only joking guys (I don't want to wake up with a WSW's head in my bed!)

Whether they would be more successful than more traditional fly methods is something I don't know and will personaly never find out but either way the Fishery Owner (as you said) sets the rules, however upsetting, and that's it.
It's one thing to have a barbless #10 lure (e.g) lost in a fish than to have a piece of Jimmy Savilles 'jewellery, jewellery' flapping about in its eating apparatus.

Tight Lines Rob

Iain

[Hamish Young]

Nice to see a counter view Rob - well done  

However:

Hmmmm...and now for something completely different 

Firstly, Hardy were selling and making "propeller" flies back in the 1800's....Arnt Hardy the ultimate fly fishing company 

Very true Rob, but that was the 1800's and not the 2000's  ~ although such things are still available and as I alluded to in a previous post some salmon flies even today (Frodin turbo disc) are 'borderline' between what's a fly and what's a spinner.

I am a little supprised that Mike thinks the flicker spoons does damage. The hook is, what, about a size 10? Same size as many "lures" used by anglers, so surely there is no difference in the potential damage caused to a fish if broken off?

I suspect it's the 'fisher' more than the actual spoon itself Rob - but I could be wrong. My view being that anyone daft enough to use one might not be the most experienced fishing 'hand' and therefore knots might not be right etc. The flicker spoons are likely to be hit hard by the fish so I'd imagine more breakages if using unsuitable kit.

Also, whats the difference between using a flicker spoon on a fly rod to using a fly such as a blob, that contains no natural material and is really designed to be an artificial bait rather than a water bourne creature?

Is it because its seen as spinning and therefore treated with disdain by fly anglers?..even though it is fished on fly gear?

Is it banned on many waters because it is too successful?

Interesting and very valid questions. I think you've pretty much got it in a nutshell with your second sentence there Rob. You're either fly fishing or you're not IMHO

and finally....if it is against the fishery rules, then my stance is the person should be asked to leave in no uncertain terms 
 

Exactly so - such methods are against the rules at Haddo therefore anyone who get's caught 'in the act' deserves to be frog-marched off the fishery

[Rob Brownfield]

Hmmmmm 

So, how do we quantify what a fly is? Would, for example, one of these be banned at Mikes?

It contains no natural fibres, it has a hard outer as its coated in epoxy..but is it a fly?

What about this? 

Its made of plastic and metal..same as a spinner is it not? 

and as for this.., I use these for Pike, Perch, Bass and Chub...on a fly rod, and its classed as fly fishing...

Oh my..where will it end

I am sure you know i am not being serious..but can anyone define the meaning of "Fly Fishing"???

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Rob

Great stuff ........ all views are good.

I've never banned anything for being too successful ( I want folk to catch plenty of fish ) It is the spinner blades and prop blades that I have a problem with, they are not going to do the inside of a fish any good.

In this case, both types of "fly" are very clearly a "spinning tool" to my eyes ........ you are right, there are many other types of flies that are difficult to class as "flies", but that is a huge minefield of a topic by itself.

Another "fly" that I would ask anglers not to use please is the one widely seen in magazines last year with plastic "wobble cones" mounted on the front like a rapala. I just see the plastic cone shaped thing as something else that could harm a fish.

But we digress ..... if something is against the fishery rules, there will be a reason, so please don't ignore the rules.

Best wishes
Mike

[snakefly]

this might sound a bit naff but whats a wobble cone .  never heard of one before.

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Snakefly

Sort of a cone or cup that you put at the front of your fly before tying the pattern, with the cone facing forwards. This is to make your fly wobble like a rapala type spinner

See http://www.lakelandflytying.com/1879/Cones/Marc_Petitjean_Magic_Heads.aspx



Best wishes
Mike

[Iain Goolager]

Mike,
I assume that the plastic cone can be inverted so that the leader material can be threaded through the eye?

If Salmon Turbo Tubes are hard to cast then that wobble cone must be a right pig.

Rob,
Whats the material you use on those Pike Flies.

Iain

[Mike Barrio]

Mike,
I assume that the plastic cone can be inverted so that the leader material can be threaded through the eye?

If Salmon Turbo Tubes are hard to cast then that wobble cone must be a right pig.

Rob,
Whats the material you use on those Pike Flies.

Iain

Hi Iain

Yes, it looks easy enough to invert the cone to tie the leader on.

Cheers
Mike

[Rob Brownfield]

Mike,
I did not know folk were usoing those cones for trout???? I have only seen them in relation to Pike/Saltwater flies.

Iain,
I use EP Fibres (Enrico Puglisi) You can get them from Orvis, Flytek, or...the cheapest in the UK, http://www.lakelandflytying.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=220

The fibres are great for salmon flies too and can be shaped with scissors and coloured with pen if need be

[Kev Danby]

Rob you dont have a step by step for those do you or know where to find one.