[Ian Fraser-Stables]

I'm not sure if this has been done to death here but a few years ago I started to use Fluorocarbon because it seemed to be the way forward for nymphs etc and also it's supposed to have the same something or other as water (forgive me, it's an age thing but can't remember what it is) therefore its not as visible as nylon.

Most of the fish I was catching were about 1.5 - 3lb using Grand Max Soft Plus 15lb to 8.2lb joined with a blood knot a perfection loop and Trilene knot to the hook. Now this was fine until just before lockdown I gave one of these leaders to a friend and we were fishing at Rockbourne Trout Fishery Hampshire, where the fish are substantially larger. He hooked into a fish, possibly about 4-5lb, we managed to see it but it shot off and broke the line. Now he's a fair to middling fisherman and was playing it well with a medium rod, so I don't think he did anything wrong. We both changed to 8lb nylon and landed our fish averaging 5lbs.So I have stuck to Nylon/ Copolymer ever since.

This really annoyed me so I did some research and some tests, firstly on the Grand Max. The 8.2lb line broke at 2lbs at the blood knot, so thinking it was the knot tried others and couldn't get passed a Figure of Eight at 3.7lb. So I thought it was this particular line and therefore did some more tests.

I used Grand Max Plus, Whychwood Competition Fluoro, Scierra Fluoro and Cortland Ultra Premium Fluoro - and tested them against Hardy Copolymer, Drennan Supplex, Snowbee Premium Copolymer and some Drennan Specimen I had left over. I tied all the knots carefully making sure they didn't pinch, ranging from Figure of Eight, double FoE,  5 turn Grinner, Grinner loops, Perfection Loops (rubbish) Toit Knot, Kreh Loop, Rapala Loop etc.

The outcome was astonishing, Nylon/Copolymer trounced Fluoro. The Grand Max again didn't get passed 3.5lb and the other Fluorocarbon lines didn't get passed 70%, the Cortland 10.9lb only reaching 6.5lb at the most.

However the Copolymer/Nylon lines achieved at least 80% line strength and some like the Drennan Specimen 10lb broke at up to 13lb with all the same knots. Oh and one more thing, once the Flouro had been tightened, it's strength almost halved again, whereas the nylon lines retained most of the original strength.

Of course rods play a good part in cushioning the line, but this opened my eyes to adverts suggesting some Fluoro line were 100% at the knots.

Sorry about all this blurb and I hope you didn't fall asleep but after all that I would like to know if anyone knows of a Fluoro line with actual good knot strength? Or at least another knot I could use if there is one I've missed?   
 

   

[Gavin Stevenson]

Agree with general exp with Fluoro knot strength and tend to use copolymers

[Duncan Inglis]

Knots and how you tie them with Fluor are the biggest issue. Blood knots are a big no no, also you must wet the knot and tighten them slowly. Having said all that I’ve found certain makes snap like thread no matter what I do, Seagar being the worst even in salmon strengths of 18lb plus. Though expensive I’ve found Froghair to be good for fine tippets for dries and the old style  Fulling Mill for lures, some of the brands seem brittle.
I’m back to Maxima for salmon.

[Graham Nicol]

For a while I used very fine fluoro to try and get some crafty trout but it was a disaster. First, as mentioned above knots were an issue for they had to be precise and perfectly bedded down. Second was as it had little to no stretch any decent take resulted in it snapping. Finally, the stuff is just not forgiving should you catch any bankside vegetation for kinks develop resulting in a weaker link and poor presentation. Copolymer and good old maxima for me.

[Sandy Nelson]

Totally agree. I haven’t used fluorocarbon for around 8 years. Apart from the knots (I had big issues with loop to loop connections as well degrading very fast) it doesn’t really biodegrade
So stays around pretty much for ever.
Having tried lots of Co-polys and finding many too slippery for good knot strength I have found the Trouthunter Co-poly to be the best in terms of strength to diameter and residual knot strength. I use it all the time and nothing else.
I’m paranoid about knots so only ever fish a single fly these days too

[Ian Fraser-Stables]

Thank you chaps, that confirms I'm not an idiot at least. 

Duncan, yes absolutely lubed the knots and closed them in ways I wouldn't have done on the bank i.e. making sure every wrap was as it should be, lockdown had its moments.  Oh and I did tie a join using a 5 turn Grinner as well, this actually proved really good with Nylon. The best I got from all the lines was with the 10lb Drennan specimen but I think that was a fluke, it was a 5 turn Trilene both ends to swivels with 20lb line to attach to a fixed point and the scales.  The 5 turn Grinner and 5 turn Trilene proved the best knot overall. 8lb Drennan Supplex with a 5 turn Trilene at the hook and 5 turn Grinner broke several times at over 9lbs. Hardy Copolymer 10lb went to 10.1lb, 7lb Snowbee Premium Copolymer went to 6.8lb.   

Sandy, me too and I only fish with one fly now too.

Once again, thank you chaps.

[Dave Robb]

Been using Airflo G3 in 10lb and 8lb for last couple of years.  Seems to be very strong with tucked blood knots.  Fine with droppers too and seems to hold well.  Would certainly use it for rainbows and first few months on the Don.  Will drop to 6lb single fly in the summer evenings.  I’m fully converted to stronger tippet with this stuff and doesn’t seem to put the fish off in the slightest.

Other than that, I’ve had similar experience with fluorocarbons.  The thinner stuff even with the G3 just seems to get a horrible twist in it especially with a dropper.   

Otherwise Orvis Supertstrong plus,  but will give that Trouthunter stuff a go.

[Jeff Donovan]

I keep an eye ready for the saver deals that Snowbee do during February, normally distribute their new catalogue along with a sales brochure of reduced or discontinued items. Have used their fluorocarbon & the copolymer tippet materials, no issues either with knots or kinks.

[Graham Nicol]

Jeff, I have a couple of spools of their stuff I don't get on with. Send me a pm and you can have them

[Mike Barrio]

Back in the days at the fishery, of all the gear we use, it was plain to see that leader/tippet material was the one that was most down to personal preferences. It was really interesting to watch how one person would rave about a particular product and the next would bin it as useless!

But I later found the R&D for Troutcast pretty straightforward, as in my experience, a good quality copoly, without a lubricant coating, nearly always comes out on top.

I agree with Sandy about fluorocarbon not degrading, I won't use it.

[James Laraway]

that's me ordered some of your tippet material Mike, so it will be interesting to see what I make of it.

Good price BTW 

[Mike Barrio]

Thanks James, I hope you like it.

When knotting, wet and tighten slowly, just like old school nylon 

[Jeff Donovan]

Jeff, I have a couple of spools of their stuff I don't get on with. Send me a pm and you can have them

Graham many thanks for the offer,    I somehow have acquired enough of the stuff to last many more years. Sorry to hear that you don't seem to get on with it.

[James Laraway]

Unreal - it arrived already !

I like the fact it is on 'mini-spools'  - much neater than other spools...

Thanks James, I hope you like it.

When knotting, wet and tighten slowly, just like old school nylon 

[Philippe Erieau]

I don't use fluorocarbon too.
I only see drawbacks to it: mainly it does not biodegrade, and it has low knot resistance. it's also not as supple as a copolymer.
The supposed advantage of low density is a marketing argument to me.  The difference in density with traditionnal copolymer is too low. A difference in fly presentation will have more effect for making a fly sink than changing a tippet from copolymer to fluoro.
I find applying good old riverbank mud on the tippet sufficient to make the tippet sink 

[Ian Fraser-Stables]

Great to see a really good discussion thank you for all your input.

I think I may try some Troutcast Copolymer tippet and put it through a few tests.

Thank you all for your comments, I really do appreciate them . 

[Greg Bowie]

Aye, Spot on, ordered some of Mike's stuff, came the next day, brilliant service. 

[Mike Barrio]

Thanks Greg, I hope it serves you well 

Cheers
Mike

[Terry Coging]

I get on very well with Seaguar Ace hard. The long leader for point fly cuts through the water quickly and it is fairly stiff for droppers.
I have no problems with weak knots. However, since my attention to the fact that fluorocarbon is not biodegradable...........??