[Dave Mundie]

I was at lochter today (was going to come see you mike but thought you might be frozen).
Its the most rewarding day i've had in a long time 4 bows and 1 beautiful brownie 
Had to kill one of the bows as it swallowed my fly completely!

So happy to say my faith has been restored if only i could get out every day well every second

Dave

[Ross]

Why kill it.....?

The hook will dissolve...dislodge or a number of things

[Dave Mundie]

Why kill it.....?

The hook will dissolve...dislodge or a number of things

Dissolve? never heard of this before i thought metal only rusted over a long period of time?

The fly was out of site so i thought rather than stress the fish by trying to get it out it was best all round to kill it than let it suffer with it still inside it.

It was 1.5lb so it'll be ok for tea one night.

Dave

[Dave Mundie]

Why kill it.....?

The hook will dissolve...dislodge or a number of things

Has anyone got any comments on what Ross has said

I personally don't think its right to put a fish back with a hook still in its body.

Dave

[charrcatcher]

I think this hook dissolving thing started with Rex (unt and his TV shows where he snips off close and tosses the fish over his shoulder, it bounces off the gunwale and maybe even then hits the water.

(Not a fan, me.)

To me, it's a fisherman's responsibility to either unhook it or take it home. How easy will swallowing food be once there's a feathery grapnel implanted in its throat? At sea it's easier to make the "dissolving" claim when the water's salty and corrosive, but in my experience steel doesn't "dissolve" at all - it corrodes, and becomes a mass of messy rustiness.

But in fresh water it's liable to be there for a long time, isn't it? Unless there's some stomach acidity in the upper digestive tract that could accelerate the steel's breakdown?

I think it'd take a metallurgist - or maybe a marine engineer? to answer this properly.

Cheers
Ian
CC

[Iain Goolager]

Hi Dave,

Good news - well done!

I don't know what you have been told, if anything, about barbless/ debarbed hooks but I would advise that you fish this way all the time. Any deep hooked trout (that is going to be returned - obviously) is going to be difficult to unhook - couple this with the fact that the hook is barbed then the problems increase further.

As you were not sure what to do I think that you did the right thing by knocking the fish on the head, in this case.

Fishing is all about experience and you will now see that there is a need for some form of disgorger (hook removal tool) which may have proved helpfull in this instance.

Another thing I would look at is how the fly became hooked so deeply. Some methods can lend themselves to catching fish that are deeper hooked - that's why traditional booby fishing was banned on many waters and why fishing certain types of fly fished under an indictor can, sometimes, be detrimental.

As I've no doubt said I fish dries and buzzers mostly and its fair to say that a deeply hooked fish is almost non-existent which is another bonus for me - but fishing and fish are not an absolute and it does happen - I had to kill a fish, easily six years ago, when fishing a hopper at Midmar.

Always carry a knotless mesh net, get yourself some form of disgorger, use debarbed hooks and always try to fish so that you are in constant contact with the fly and I think you have done your bit as a responsible angler.

Tight lines

Iain

[Dave Mundie]

Hi Iain,

Some good comments there,
I use debarbed hooks all the time, the fly i was using was a gold humungus on a deep slow retrieve. I caught the brownie wit it before hand but it didnt swallow i guess the bow was hungry 

Dave

[Rob Brownfield]

I guess I should comment on this one 

I have, over the years, retuned fish that have taken a bait deep, with the hook in situ. Some of these fish have been large and recognisable, and I have caught them several times again over the years. (Pike and Carp). I have also taken Pike that have had several traces down there throats  with 2 large trebles attached. These fish continued to feed, even with all this ironmongry in there gobs. I have then removed these traces and sometimes the hooks have rusted away, other times they have not, but the point is, the fish has survived and continued to grow. If it had been killed, then it would have no chance.

My view is this, if the fish is bleeding from the gills (talking trout now) I would knock it on the head, if the fish was not, then I would snip the nylon as close to the fly as i could and release it. I do not think a fly on a size 12 hook is much of a problem for a trout as they continuely take sticks, stones etc when they feed and can then "cough them up" at will. Open a rainbow from a water that contains sticklebacks and you will see even the spines from one of these do not pose a problem.

[Iain Goolager]

Hi Rob,

I haven't fished for pike for a few years now but used to go to Kinnord and Abiyne quite often. My favourite method was float fished mackerel but mostly I fished a mackerel strip on a running ledger.........anyway I did have a few occasions where the treble was tricky to remove.

I did start to use barbless trebles but never quite got round to buying one of those disgorgers - the one with the long slotted rod with the cone at the end - ever used one (probably had one for years) and are they a boost?

Iain

[Tam Greenock]

Last time we fished Lochter JIMBOB caught two fish in two casts, a 5lb Brownie and then a 5lb Blue both cracking fish.

[JIMBOB]

On the question of removing hooks, does anyone have experience of using a Ketchum release? Do they work?

[Mike Barrio]

On the question of removing hooks, does anyone have experience of using a Ketchum release? Do they work?

Yes, very well indeed, but you have to catch a few fish before you get used to keeping the line tight enough for it to work properly.

Once you master it, they are first class and really good at helping with deeper hooked fish

Cheers
Mike

[Iain Goolager]

Jimbob,

There was a previous topic regarding disgorgers and the various 'Ketchums' on the market. The one I use is an Orvis (now £14.00 @the Banchory shop) which is black, compact and fits the usual trout fly sizes perfectly.

What was that previous topic title?

Iain

[Mike Barrio]

Jimbob,

There was a previous topic regarding disgorgers and the various 'Ketchums' on the market. The one I use is an Orvis (now £14.00 @the Banchory shop) which is black, compact and fits the usual trout fly sizes perfectly.

What was that previous topic title?

Iain

This one Iain? http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=788.0

[Rob Brownfield]

Goolager,
No need for discorgers etc. First you need to stike at the first indication of a run, but if the hooks are deep the use of long nose forceps, and chin hold on the Pike and confidence in dealing with the fish will allow you to remove deep hooks.

Pike can turn there tummys inside out (not all the way, but certainly into the throat, so if you pull firmly but gently on the trace the hooks wil come into view. Barbless trebles are a must.

You can go in through the gills to unhook to. Just be careful not to touch any gill rakers.

[Iain Goolager]

That's the baby Mike!

Rob,

When ledgering (running) I use two rests, monkey climb and Aero Baitrunner and try to strike as soon as I think that the fish has the bait 'properly' in it's mouth. Fortunately I hardly ever deep hook fish - more often than not I  lightly hook pull the bait from its mouth but 'like the Murphys' etc....

I once assisted a guy removing a treble from a fishes internals - all you could see see was the trace disappearing down into its stomach and I thought ' how the heck are you going to remove that' - he, as you state, inverted its gut, removed the hook and after a little cuddle (with the fish not me) it swam away - amazing.

Anyway so much for the 'Lochter' topic

Iain

[Dave Mundie]

Oh well i don't know what the correct eticate is but i'm going to stick with the fact that you souldn't return anything to the water with a foreign body inside it.

Dave