[Iain Goolager]

Calling all experts

Bought some fly tying kit to start making my own Klinks, Mr O. Edwards suggests using 'Spiderweb' to tie a wing post around the poly-yarn and to subsequently secure the hackle once wound.

The 'spiderwebb' I have is Danvilles 30 denier............are there other thicknesses or is THE spec. for spiderweb?

I have progressed from breaking the bloody stuff every time I pick up the bobbin holder to forming the post, tying off the hackle and securing with a Maximum of two whips (any attempt to secure further snaps the thread).

I feel as nervous as someone with both diarrhoea and bronchitis.

I'm using a standard metal bobin holder but the thread never breaks there.

thanks

Iain

[Sandy Nelson]

Iain

There is only one spiderweb, surprisingly i dont use it
Same problems as you i find 8/0 unithread is miles better for regular tying down to size 24, you get it in various colours too, nice and strong but very fine, 12/0 bennechi is also very good. Spiderweb is only really useful for flies in sizes less than 20 IMHO, i think Olly uses it because it takes dye from a marker really well.

Sandy

[Hamish Young]

For me it's Roman Moser Power Silk - the mutts nuts - very very tough to break when tying.... so much so I use it to tie in bucktail etc when tying salmon flies in order to keep head sizes etc small. Great stuff 

[Jim Doyle]

Try Steve Partons micro, use it for everything.  Will bring some to the grayling day if you want to try it.  jim

[Iain Goolager]

Thanks Guys,

I have 8/0 unithread and powersilk (just bought some from Niche & it is tough!) I will give both a try to see what suits me best.

Jim,

Yes, bring a spool of 'Steve Partons Micro' along on Sunday (any colour) and I'll square you up.


Thanks again


Iain

[Irvine Ross]

Don't know why you lot have problems with Danvills spiderweb. I use it to tie off all my parachute hackles and it doesn't break with me. I use a ceramic bobbin holder but I don't think that would make much difference. Just try being a touch gentler.

I find Moser's powersilk and 8/0 unithread is too bulky for the job. Spiderweb is ideal as it just disappears once it's wound on.

good luck

Irvine

[Iain Goolager]

Hi Hares Lug,

Thanks for, in a round about way, saying that I'm a ham fisted beaut

I am getting there slowly but since receiving the posts yesterday I've tied two Klinks and a Paradun using powersilk which seems to be tickety boo. I am going to try the other threads mentioned as well as 'Percy Veering' with the  Spiderweb (as I can be as stubborn as hell)

Thanks Irvine

Iain
 

[Sandy Nelson]

Why are we using the Spiderweb for parachute hackles.
Is this an Edwards technique, it sounds like you are actually tying the thread around the wing post ??? If so why?
and at what point in the fly are you tying off the hackle?

 ??? ??? ???

Intrigued

[Irvine Ross]

Blame or credit Ollie Edwards.

This is how he shows tying off the hackle on a Klinkhammer in an article in FF&FT written many moons ago and so, knowing no better, I have always followed it, and it works!

Basically you tie in the hackle after the wing post, leave it pointing in the air, and then finish off all the rest of the fly and whip finish as normal, all with your usual tying thread. You then pick up your spool of spiderweb, catch it onto the wing material, build up a short post and then let the bobbin hang out of the way. Wind the hackle down from the top, catch and tie in with the spiderweb and then whip finish around the base of the hackle. Easier if you use a whip finish tool.

Edwards suggests rotating the fly in the vice downwards through 90 degrees so the wing post is horizontal for this part of the operation but I find it easier if I leave the fly in its original position in the vice.

I know there are other ways of tying off parachute hackles, but if Ollie Edwards says this is the best way, that is good enough for me.

Cheers

Irvine

PS I'm ham fisted too but its surprising how soon you get the feel of how hard you can pull.

[Sandy Nelson]

How durable is this?

Seems awfully long winded way of doing it, wondered if there was any benefit.
All i can see are problems

Sandy

[Iain Goolager]

Spidey,

I'm all ears if you want to share an easier method, all I really tie is buzzers and the odd nymph but would be grateful for any tips with the dries.


Iain

[Irvine Ross]

How durable is this?

Seems awfully long winded way of doing it, wondered if there was any benefit.
All i can see are problems

Sandy

Humph. You telling me you know better than Ollie Edwards? 

Actually,when I think of it, it was Hans van Klinken himself that wrote the article and, as it's his pattern, he should know how to tie it. So there

I've not had a problem with durability. My parachute hackled flies are no more liable to lose the hackle than my other dry flies. In fact I can't remember one unravelling in the last few years.

The benefit is the hackle is tied last so there is nothing getting in the way of tying the rest of the fly. It's quick and easy to dub on the thorax.

Once you are used to it, it's just as quick as any other way and there are no problems providing you are careful not to catch the hackle as you whip finish. If you use a whip finish tool, it's easy enough for a cack handed duffer like me, which means it should be easy enough for anybody, even Spiderman

Give it a go

Irvine

[Sandy Nelson]

I am genuinely interested to see if it is worth trying.
I've done similar before with micros 20-24 and found it pointless and frustrating.
I always tie wing posts with antron or snowshoe hare, i tie the hackle stalk in when i run the silk down to the tail, then tie the hackle down after there is enough on, i finish with a thorax wound under the hackle, whilst lifting the hackle with my spare hand. Its much quicker and they never unravel either, i often open up the centre of the wing post with the dubbing needle and put a tiny drop of varnish in the centre.
I'm lazy and tend to tie in the fastest way possible, a bad habit unfortunatley, however as it works i've never needed to try anything else.
maybe i'll have a go

How do you get the varnish onto the end of the thread after the whip finish? if its at the base of the hackle, without getting it on the fibres?
Carefully does not constitute an answer

Sandy

[Jim Doyle]

Varnish the thread before you whip finish, then when you do finish off its where you want it and no where else .  jim

[Sandy Nelson]

Varnish the thread before you whip finish, then when you do finish off its where you want it and no where else .  jim

Except the whip finish tool and your fingers, and then everywhere else

Sandy

[Jim Doyle]

I dont think youll find it as messy as you pre suppose, try it .

[Irvine Ross]

How do you get the varnish onto the end of the thread after the whip finish? if its at the base of the hackle, without getting it on the fibres?
Carefully does not constitute an answer

Sandy

Sandy

Whip finish with whip finish tool and just as you slip the thread onto a single hook, so you are only holding a simple loop of thread, let the bobbin hang and put a drop or two of head cement onto the loop of thread with your spare hand. Rotate the fly vice slightly away from you so the thread is clear of the hackle and pull tight.

Or  - when you find you have finished and forgotten to put the head cement on:
Rotate the vice so the wing post is pointing away from you and put a few drops of cement onto the thread with the tip of your dubbing needle.

cheers

Irvine

[Iain Goolager]

Blokes,

On the Rt Hon. Mr Edwards' DVD ' Big Dry Flies for Fast Water' he ties the Klink and secures the hackle as follows;
He turns the vise so that the fly is lying horizontally (rotated 90 degrees from the upright position) and applies a tiny drop of 'Fly-Tite' cement at the junction between the last hackle wrap and peacock herl thorax and that's it - job done.

Obviously as I'm tying these for the first time I'm trying to emulate his every move and this too is how I have finished off the ones that I've tied.  It is worth mentioning that I am cutting up the flies that I have tied as I want to get the process ingrained 'in mi heed' - and when I cut off the yarn indicator c/w hackle it is left lying in a perfectly formed state - no unravelling - (only 2 turns of spiderweb due to my bap hands) so I'm fairly confident that this adequately secures the fly.

Anyone requiring a loan of this DVD can drop me a post.


Goolager

[Sandy Nelson]

Is this whip finish going around the hook or the post?

I have a funny feeling i'm reading this wrong

Sandy

[Iain Goolager]

Spidey,

The whip finish is going around the base of the post

Iain

[Sandy Nelson]

The whip finish is going around the base of the post

Below the hackle? or above it  ???

Sandy

[Iain Goolager]

Below the hackle.

Hackle is wound from the top of the post (top of the bound section of post using the Spiderweb that is) in touching turns down until it contacts the top of the thorax where it is tied off and the waste removed.
Then the whip finish is administered at this point.

Iain
     

[Jim Doyle]

http://www.danica.com/flytier/hklinken/klinkhamer_special.htm  From the gentleman himself

[Hamish Young]

Interesting idea, still looks tricky though. Will give it a go later on 

[Sandy Nelson]

Great link Jim

I'm wondering now, by doing this does it make the hackle sit flatter?
Or is it the klinkhammer bent hook that makes it look level.

I've tied para's for years and normally the hackle sits pointing slightly upwards.
ie http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/z-greyduster800.jpg

I always find this makes the fly sit lower in the water, but also a little more prone to drowning.
I always tie for ease and speed so not tying round the post has always suited me (far to protracted and not enough patience) this upwards tilt is perhaps a result of not making the post a constant width where the hackle touches it.I wonder if it makes a difference

Klinks are meant to sit hanging in the water (hatching sedge after all) so perhaps i've inadvertantly achieved a similar effect with a normal hook by doing it the easy way for the last 20 years. When tied on standard hooks I also wonder if the flatter hackle which by its nature is less prone to collapse, will therefore float better, would it also be more inclined to be a spiky biscuit for the fish and prone to ejection.This is the reason i tend towards CDC for dries these days. I've never really tried using bent hooks for Paras (Klinks i suppose) maybe the combination of bent hook with the flat tied parachute will hook more fish than a conventional hook.

Could be an iteresting experiment to try. Hmmmmmmmmmmm...........................

Sandy