[Rob Brownfield]

If you are in past Banchory, pop into the Orvis shop. They have one of the limited addition Helios rods in, and what a stunner it is too!

Billed as the worlds lightest rod, i can believe it. They have a 9 weight saltwater model in and it feels like a 5 weight. Recoil guides, custom alloy reel seat etc etc. Beautiful. Cant wait to see the 9 foot 5 weight!!

http://www.orvis.com/intro.asp?dir_id=758&Group_ID=759&subject=3586

[Sandy Nelson]

They can probably say that,
now David Norwich's 'Helium' rods are out of production.

I wonder what it casts like, i notice they've gone for the mid action for the 5wt, not PC as far as the so called experts go, but probably far more suited to most people.

When it comes to mistresses, weight and speed have little to do with it, its how she does it and whether she does it better than the wife. All that bling affects her balance nicely, but the reel problem will be how large it makes her butt.


Sandy

the video is pretty good though

[Rob Brownfield]

Sandy, her butt has two rather large rings....well the saltwater version 

I phoned a chappie in the London Orvis shop (He took me guiding on the Thames for Pike in November) to speak about these rods as he is using them. He says although it says "mid flex", due to the lightness of the blank, it recovers quicker and therfore casts like a faster rod, if that makes sense  I dont pretend to understand all the mechanics of it, but i guess lighter means faster recovery and less tip bounce.

I am going in at the weekend to put a 9 weight Pike line through it to see what its like

[Sandy Nelson]

Have fun

had a closer look at the construction, given that as i was doing the glossary bit on rods, i was thinking what you want is a Med/fast, high modulus,super fast recovery, low resin high carbon with carbon scrim rod with a low tip mass, this seems to tick the boxes. If you added some boron to the mix  you get a B11X 

they are quoting 2 3/4oz for the 9ft 5wt, thats bloody light, my B11x weighs 2.82oz on the scales i wonder how close the helios will get in reality

Still a double butt ring eh! well i guess for your heavy weight tastes and the power you use, you'll need it.
The freshwater has a single butt ring, a tad more conventional for the more subtle lover

Lovely looking piece of kit though, enormous money

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

Sandy,
seriously, the chap in the shop told me to close my eyes, bend over..nahh..not that bit...hold out my hand and said, "Guess what line rating this rod is". I said a 4 or a 5..nope..it was the 9 saltwater..which will be heavier than a 9 fresh water. I was stunned.

No UK price yet but he said circa £500.

[Hamish Young]

Ouch - that's not cheap

[Rob Brownfield]

Nor are the top of the range Loomis, Sage, Hardy, Barrio  rods

[Hamish Young]

True, very true, but on the whole I've always found the top-end Orvis stuff to be a wee bit disappointing for the money When compared to the likes of Loomis, Sage, Winston, Hardy etc.

Few commercial/non-custom rods meet the build quality found on the Barrios 

[Sandy Nelson]

No UK price yet but he said circa £500.

yeah right the Zero G 905 is $655 and £499

the helios is $775  so will be more like £649

Mind you , you have to be careful when people tell you to hold out your hand and close your eyes

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

yeah right the Zero G 905 is $655 and £499

the helios is $775  so will be more like £649

Mind you , you have to be careful when people tell you to hold out your hand and close your eyes

Sandy

Can only quote what was said  but have to agree that I would have thought higher. Perhaps he was trying to get me to put down a deposit!..lol...or was that when he asked me to put out my hand


As for quality..have to agree..was dissapointed on the first Orvis rods I saw, but the Helios is in a different catagory..although still a high gloss rod My TLS is actually quite good as well...and as you know, i am a fussy bugger when it comes to rod finish. Just finishing off a beach caster for the winter Cod

[Sandy Nelson]

On a slight detour

My wife has just woken up from her cosmetic surgery and is looking gorgeous again
I gave her a good rub down last night and gave her butt a good polishing.
The nice new bling is suitably subtle and her grip is nice and smooth again, just what you want
Am desperatley looking forward to getting out with her tomorrow to rekindle a lost romance, hopefully she'll end up bending nicely and bucking with relish as together we fan the flames of passion with session of pure bliss

Sandy

[Hamish Young]

Look forward to seeing that 

[Sandy Nelson]

Perve

[Mike Barrio]

Buzzers and bloodworms might be on the menu tomorrow methinks ......... and of course "Red Hooks"

Cheers
Mike

[Sandy Nelson]

Twas grand

The first wife is back in the groove, she performed with aplomb
Only started to weaken a little when presented with my slightly heavier flies.
But then i often ask too much of the good lady, she still does it, but under duress, not the best way to enjoy a happy balanced relationship
I think strolls down the river are more the order of the day, or perhaps the spring to autumn spider hatch, then we can share more intimate times.

I did however finish the day with the star of my Hareem and she truly is the BEST by a long way, even poor Big H wasn't offered a turn NO-one does

So mistresses who needs em just have a decent hareem

Sandy

[Sandy Nelson]

Had a fondle of the Helios today

9ft 5wt, tip flex
9ft 5wt mid flex
9ft 8wt mid flex
8ft 3wt mid flex

Very light indeed, the 9ft 5wt was 2 3/8ths oz even lighter than i thought

will get to cast them next week all being well, we'll see what they are like
Didn't seem that special today having a waggle, but then thats often the case
Was dissappointed with the build though, the cork was only OK and a lot of the rings had blobs of resin on them, for a very expensive rod it was unacceptable, interesting reel seat, lots of holes (always handy on a mistress )

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

Sandy,
you supprise me. The 9 weight i saw was spot on..but then again it was one of the 250 limited edition ones, maybe they are limited as they are the only well built ones 

I do get very annoyed when poor cork is used and then filled. I know its hard to come by, but if I can get Fluor grade cork then surely the might of a big company can too.

[Hamish Young]

I'll be interested to see them, like I said earlier in this thread I've found their top end stuff to be a smidgen dissapointing (when it comes to build quality). If you charge a premier price it's not unreasonable to expect a premier product so I agree with you Rob, if the private rod builder can get his/her mitts on decent cork then I damn sure any commercial firm can.

Remind me to tell you the next time I see you of what Sandy found under the cork of a certain Orvis rod in my possesion 

[Rob Brownfield]

I think I already know!!..

But you only have to look at some of the other top end rods to be dissapointed. I picked up a 15 foot Angel only to spot bubbles in the finish and threads not very well wrapped..and that was £999.  A chap i know from the Midmar Inn was given an 8 weight Angel for a trip to Belize..he did not even get a cast from it, it broke when he was threading the line. Turned out to be faulty resin in the blank.

To tell the truth, its disgusting the quality of some rods out there, be they UK, US or Far Eastern.

[Sandy Nelson]

I think there have been a lot of problems with the angels breaking.

There are a lot of people talking up special resins with regard to the new rods on the market over the last few months, so far the evidence is they are unreliable as far as breaking goes, even if  they are super light and thin, if they are brittle to the point where people are breaking them under normal use (casting) then something is wrong.
Perhaps they (the manufacturers) are just trying to hard.
Maybe its EVO syndrome, fantastic performance as long as you dont mind it falling apart around you. Mega bucks for what it is but no-one would accept the build quality on an ordinary product that was a 1/3rd of the price, but becasue of what it does, people do its a funny old world

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

I understand the Angels had a problem that meant the resin had tiny air bubbles in it..and thus this weakened them. The blanks i use for all the carp and pike rods I build for folk come from Harrisons and Century Composites. Both companies autoclave there blanks to remove any air in the scrim or resin. I have never had a rod back..and my own Century Pike rods are going strong some 15 years on. The quality of the blanks are second to none.

[Sandy Nelson]

Rob

I thought all carbon blanks had to go in an Autoclave, without the heat or pressure the prepregs dont work.In fact i though it went for all carbon fibre products.

The problems with airbubbles maybe to do with the humidity/uncontrolled enviroment when the cloths are applied to the mandrels.
Also I belive the newer resins require higher temps and pressures to activate and this is possibly the reason for some of the high tech blanks having cavities as well as air bubbles.If the resin doesn't flow into the cloth properly then the rod will have serious weak spots, unfortunatley some aspects of quality control are lacking in some quarters it seems
In fact i would possibly even suggest some manufacturers are using materials that on paper will give them awesome performance, but the rest of the production facility is not up to the closer tolerances required. I would reckon the appearance of military spec aviation grade composites , is not being mirrored by an investment in the conditions/equipment required to cure these high tech materials in the correct fashion.
The raw materials are cheap, the equipment to use them is Not.

Sandy

[Jim Doyle]

Its the old problem of trying to save weight but keep strength.  there are 2 ways too design a rod and get equal stiffness, fast taper thin wall or slow taper thicker wall. The first saves weight but having a thin wall means any bubbles will be a higher percentage of the wall thickness , on a slow taper thicker wall it is not so important as it is a lesser percentage of the wall thickness.  B+W, diawa were built the first way and had many failures, hardy have oved to this position and are now experiencing the same problems .  The pursuit of lightness is not always the best path.  jim

[Rob Brownfield]

Sandy,
My understanding is that normally the carbon component is cured in an oven, without pressure.

[Sandy Nelson]

My understanding is that normally the carbon component is cured in an oven, without pressure.

Perhaps this is the problem?

My knowledge of Carbonfibre component production is obviously quite different to yours, could be down to grades involved, perhaps.

there are 2 ways too design a rod and get equal stiffness, fast taper thin wall or slow taper thicker wall.

What about different modulus cloths, additional materials, variations in the layup of cloths, different types of scrim as well different modulus of resins.

having a thin wall means any bubbles will be a higher percentage of the wall thickness , on a slow taper thicker wall it is not so important as it is a lesser percentage of the wall thickness. 

If the wall is thicker then there is more material, if there is more material of a similar type to the thin wall, then there will be a proportionally greater number of bubbles in the thicker wall so the effects are likely to be the same. Inclusions are a bigger problem and can affect any carbon component.

The pursuit of lightness is not always the best path.  jim

Couldn't agree more Recovery rate is far more important, but then that involves removing mass and increasing stiffness, finding a compromise that manages to tick all the boxes is the elusive holy grail of fly rods.

Durability and practicality against performance The Porsche 911 of the fishing rod world.

Or for the mid budget the Golf GTI

Or for starters the Fiat Panda 100HP.

Ye pays yer money and takes yer pick

Sandy