Pontoon Boats Modifications

[Paul Rankine]

Hi All,
        Missed the pontoon day but having a few thoughts about using one of these in larger open ie windy  lochs. Obviously some kind of drogue system would be required to cut down on the drifting and orientation problems . Would there be any merit is some kind of keel / rudder board system ?
The idea of the keel was because of the conversation I had with Henry who reckoned that the pontoon boats were getting blown around by the slightest puff of wind making it difficult for folks to fish without constant use of an oar. I remember Allan Liddle saying much the same thing when he tried one out a few years back. Obviously this could be a major problem on more larger and exposed waters . I was thinking of some kind of rudder board system which could be attached to the frame , preferably easily levered in and out of the water, in for drifting , out on passage. I think Steve Parton did an article recently on these and their use.This would give better control than a drogue on big waters. What do folks think ?

Also what other mods might be useful ?

Do we now call it "Tooning" !? 

Paul.

[PDScott]

Paul,
Henry was quite right about the pontoon being blown about and more time was spent paddling than fishing - when you combine the paddles with flippers, however, you have the best of both worlds. You are now able to travel in all directions (which you can't in a tube).
We discussed at length the merits of the pontoon and the most obvious one to me was the speed at which you could get to where you were going, and with a lot less effort. Mike suggested, for Haddo, that a small sand-bag could be attached to a piece of rope and used as an anchor - this, of course, would only be suitable in shallower water. One modification that was discussed with Richard, was shortening the footrests to allow easier entry and exit when wearing flippers and this could be very easily done with a hacksaw and the plastic end-pieces re-attached. One other item that was sorely missed was a line tray or apron at the front to prevent the line drifting under the pontoon as you brought your line back in - I had a very nervous couple of minutes when a fish doubled back under me and very close to the trailing line!
I would suggest going along to Haddo to try one out and to take your flippers to see how easily controlled they are.
I hope that this is of some use.
Peter 

[Mike Barrio]

Hi folks 

I've been out in the pontoon a few more times now and have started to get a better feel for them.

I think it would be safe to say that I have probably seen far more first time float tubers than most folk, I can remember Henry's maiden voyage and plenty more. You all took a while to get to know float tubes and went round and round in circles in the wind etc, so maybe your first pontoon boat outing would be a similar experience?

So yes, a similar experience maybe, but we had the back up of our float tubing knowledge and soon put this to good use. Peter is quite right, as soon as you put flippers on your feet you gain as much control as you would normally have in a float tube and everything falls in to place. You can drift a pontoon in exactly the same way as you would a float tube, using slight flipper movement to maintain direction with the wind behind you.

I can possibly see a few advantages that a pontoon might have on larger waters. You can row a pontoon in very shallow water indeed ( some of you will perhaps have found out just how far you have to walk backwards in the shallows at Lochindorb before you get to knee depth and can sit down and flipper ) I think you would be able to row and flipper a pontoon at the same time to get back up the loch against the wind ( but I'm not sure that I'd fancy trying that in high winds for sure ) you would be more visible to motor boats in a pontoon than a float tube, pontoon boats are easier to get in and out of at the bankside ( so we are hopefully less likely to fall in! ) ........... just a few points that spring to mind.

So Mike prefers pontoon boats then? ..... I don't actually, there is something very magical about float tubing, you are in the water with the fish 

A pontoon boat is great fun and good to fish from, but it is still a boat and it is on the water, even when you use flippers 

I've been on and off the phone to Steve Parton a good few times this week, we are making a line tray to suit the pontoons and Steve is busy sewing it all up for me, I should have the prototype at Haddo over the next few days. Designing one is dead simple of course but then we started to think about folk possibly getting tangled up in one in a mishap ( some float tube line trays could be more than a bit tricky in a dunking! ) so we are putting the first one together with velcro straps instead of bungees and clips to see how they look for the task, which should be much safer. I love working with Steve, we both get out on the water ( or better still - in the water ) and try stuff for real ........ and if he don't like it "a spade's a spade" as the saying goes!

"Caddisfisher" Dave went out in the pontoon for the second time at the Bamboo Gathering and looked very much at home, he appeared to me to be fishing just as he normally does from the tube. Any comments Dave?

The pontoon cup holder is a tad too small for my favourite wee dram glass, but I guess finding a slightly smaller glass will be easier than modifying the cup holder! 

Great thread Paul 

Best wishes
Mike Barrio

[Paul Rankine]

Hey Mike and Pete,
                           Thanks for that . I,m not really thinking about whether a tube or pontoon boat is the better. They both have their advantages and disadvantages . What is required on big wild windy waters is actually a combination of both advantages !

I have my own ideas on what they are .

I agree , sitting doon in the water , reduces your height to nearby fish , reduces windage, and possibly increases the effort/locomotion ratio . And yes, also, makes you feel much more one with nature , and nature much more one with you.

I agree also , sitting up on the water , possibly does the opposite to the above (!).

The solution is to use a combination of both .

I don't want to do both , ie , tow a float tube to where I intend to use it .

No. I think it is entirely possible to design a cross between both types.

In any case to use a pontoon boat , or tube , even with Superman on the flippers in a decent Highland wind , (Gale) , is going to leave Superman knackered , very quickly . Aye , and probably cast like flotsam onto the lee shore, (or even onto the Orkney Loch Hundland shore ! ) .These were extreme conditions I know , but they mark the limits, .......   for me , at least !

What I think is possible is to engineer a design that consists of some form of in/out lee-board for use on the big wild waters and also when occasion demands.

I am very interested to hear what other more experienced tubers , (than I ) , think.

Is this possible ?


Paul.

[Mike Barrio]

Something else we should have mentioned Paul, Richard said that somebody in Scotland has made a board on the back of theirs to support a battery and uses an electric motor 

Cheers
Mike

[Paul Rankine]

Cheers Mike,
                   No echo sounder , fish sonde etc ? 
Paul.

[Dave Olley]

Hi
as Mike says I have had a bit more of a go in the pontoon, and in my opinion the answer is fins. Not those daft little ones that they sell for tubes but proper big divers fins
Use the oars to get where you are going and then use the fins for manouvering or fishing.
I find the pontoon as easy to move with decent fins as my float tube.
Another advantage of the pontoon boat is that you sit up higher with you elbows by your side so that you can cast/retrieve with your arms in a much more comfortable position.
I hate to say it but if I could only have one or the other, it would be the pontoon boat, it is just more versatile, but I would hate to lose the "banana"

[Mike Barrio]

Re: I would hate to lose the "banana"

Don't worry Dave, there is little chance of you losing it ..... even with my eyes, I can see it from miles away 

Cheers
Mike

[Paul Rankine]

Thanks for that guys.
Paul.

[Rob Brownfield]

From my understanding, pontoon boats were not meant for still waters/windy conditions. They were built for fishing running water where, because the angler was out the water, it was easier to paddle upstream and hold position on the edge of pools and traverse shallow riffles.

Float tubes are more stable as you have a "drogue and keel" system keeping you steady...your legs.

Anything above the surface is a hinderence in wind and therefore using a pontoon in a big windswept loch would be the same as using a boat and thus a drog etc would be needed...and i would have thought a small boat would be more comfortable and easier to control in this situation.

My Dutch fly fishing mates fish the vast waters in Holland and the Battic sea for Pike and they use tubes for this very reason.

Just a thought like

[Paul Rankine]

Rob,
       Pontoon boats have been designed to fish a variety of waters in the States from rivers, small lakes to actually very big waters. So your understanding of them is mistaken. Yes, they are used in river rafting situations , particularly in guiding situations , with multiple fishers , designed for purpose . You will pay considerably more for the extra engineering involved in building river class pontoon boats.
These are not what I am on about however on this Forum.

Paul.

[Rob Brownfield]

Paul,
My understanding of Pontoon boats from an american book I have is that the first one for fishing was built in the late 1940's by a car mechanic who had seen pleasure Pontoon boats out on a local lake, or "party barges" as they were known. these were large, stable vessels fitted with an engine which provided a very stable platform for..as the name suggests, parties. This chap decided to make one from aluminium and it had a simple bench seat and oars. This was built so he could fish a fast flowing, shallow river that cut through a local gorge. Boats had been traditionaly used with someone on the oars and someone fishing but he wanted to fish on his own and thought the Pontoon idea would be far more stable and easy to move about in the confines of the gorge.

I stand by my comment that Pontoon boats for fishing with rod and line were designed for rivers first. What commercial companies did after this is another story.

Your original post complained of difficult use in the wind, drifting and orientation problems, having to add keels and boards to them and others have confirmed this in the past etc...which in my eyes pretty much confirms what i wrote..they were not designed for large, windswept waters.  ???

[Paul Rankine]

Rob,
       To bring an end to this rather pointless exercise.
"they were not designed for large, windswept waters."

Exactly my point. Currently !!

Paul.

[Rob Brownfield]

 

[lenap]

hello all,
           this being my first posting i just went after what was a problem for me with a wind blown pontoon boat. in additition to using force fins to stabalise your craft, geta mesh nylon bag about 12 " x 12" put a few stones in it about 3to 5 lbs. fasten to a nylon roap and drag your anchor. add or subtract to get what you want, i have used this method many times in drift boats on fast rivers. once shown by a montana guide i was quick to learn its benefits. i float boat often and just picked up a new scadden freestyle pontoon boat , already making it my own with minor tweeks. hope this gives another view to solving a problem. good fishing.lenap

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Peter
Welcome to the forum

It will be great to hear what you are up to "across the pond" and compare notes

It would be grand to see a photo or two of you fishing from your pontoon if you could post some. If you are not sure about posting photos you can always send them to me and I'll do my best to help

Best wishes
Mike Barrio

[lenap]

HELLO MIKE, AND THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY. I AM WORKING ON A FEW PICTURES TO SEND YOU. MY FISHING PARTNER AND I ARE GOING TO THE BLACK BEAR SWAMP DAM ,RUNOFF AREA IN NORTHERN MASSACHUSETTS NEAR THE VERMONT BORDER  SHORTLY. BIG BOWS AND BROWNS 15 LB PLUS ARE THERE AS THE RUN OFF PROVIDES A CONSTANT BUG HATCH AND FEED.I CALLED A LOCAL FLOAT GUIDE TO ASK ABOUT THIS PLACE AND WAS TOLD NOBODY FISHES THIS AREA BECAUSE THEY DON,T FLOAT  BOAT OR TUBE . HE IS A ALSO A STILLWATER MAN AND BROUGHT US TO HIS PRIVATE HAUNTS,HE WAS VERY MUCH LOOKING FOWARD TO OUR TRIP AND WE ALREADY SWAPPED IDEAS AND FLY VIEWS.WE JUST GOT OUR NEW DAVE SCADDEN FREESTYLE FLOAT TUBES THAT WE PURCHASED AT A FLY FISHING SHOW.ADVANTAGE, NO METAL FRAME , 15 LB WEIGHT, 500 LB CAPACITY, LOTS OF FLOTATION AND ROOM FOR STUFF. AS YOU KNOW ITS DIFFICULT TO GET A PICTURE WHEN YOU ARE FLOATING UNLESS YOU ARE RIGHT NEXT TO YOUR BUDDY AS HE HOOKS UP A FISH.HAVING BEEN DIONG DOING THIS NOW FOR MANY YEARS ,I JUST ENJOY SHARING DIFFERENT VIEWS AND FLY PATTERNS.THANK YOU AGAIN FOR THE REPLY. PETE .

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Peter

Thanks for sending the photos of your new float tube

The scenery in the background looks awesome Is that in Montana?

Best wishes
Mike

[lenap]

MIKE,
       YES THAT IS IN MONTANA, AT THE H LAZY 6 RANCH, THEY RAISE BLACK ANGUS CATTLE, THE MOUNTAINS ARE THE ROCKEY MOUNTAIN FRONT ,THE BACK SIDE OF GLACIER NATIONAL PARK AND THE BOB MARSHALL WILDERNESS AREA. THIS IS A SMALL RANCH OF ABOUT 10 K ACRES, BUT ITS GOT A NUMBER OF SMALL PONDS ABOUT 25 ACRES WITH WILD NATIVE TROUT AND ALSO FROM BRITISH COLUMBIA ,ALL FISH ARE RIVER RAISED AND SUPERCHARGED WITH LIFE. I ALSO FISHED THE NEXT RANCH AT BATTLE CREEK AT THE END OF THE VALLEY 57 K ACRES 10 PONDS ,BIGGEST 100 ACRES FOR KAMLOOPS TROUT. BROKEN RODS AND LOST LINES , KAMLOOPS WILL PUT YOU IN TOTAL AWE OF TROUT STRENGTH. DAVID LETTERMAN OF TV FAME BOUGHT THE ENTIRE VALLEY END FOR HIMSELF, OVER 70 THOUSAND ACRES AND THEN SHUT IT DOWN, I WAS SICK. THIS IS HAPPENING ALL OVER THE WEST, SO WE ARE IN CONSTANT SEARCH FOR SIMULAR SPOTS . TOO MUCH MORE TO SAY ABOUT THIS GRIZZLY BEAR AREA IN THIS NOTE, BUT IT IS THE EXACT ROUTING THAT LEWIS AND CLARK TOOK FROM EAST TO WEST. THE SILENCE IS DEFFENING. PETE.