[Ben Dixon]

What is the best stuff for doing lighter rods?  Single leg guides, size A thread must still give a nice finish.

Used standard Flex Coat so far and on larger areas (salmon rod ferrules) I got a slight rippling with it and one batch remained slightly tacky.  I presume this was probably just my ineptness at using the stuff though!

Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

You put too much on in one go. These means it will sag and droop, even though the rod is turning.

You can get very fine wet and dry and sand the high spots down and then recoat, thinly this time.

I have found the best way is to do one coat, enough to visually coat the whipping, stoping right at the edge of the thread (dont go onto the blank yet). Leave to dry. This coat will soak in and you will see some of the thread through the coating. Put on a second coat, this time overlapping onto the blank slightly. Again thin. This will level perfectly.

As to which coating. You could try Flexcoat Lite which was developed for lighter rods. Again, two or three thin coats are better than one thick one. This stuff soaks in much better. Always remember to make sure the coats are totally clean, free of grease and silicone, and dry before recoating or you may get a reaction.

I have switched to Threadmaster epoxy. Seems to stay workable for longer and does not seem to be so critical on the mixing rations (no more sticky finish!). They also do a Lite version for fly rods. There is also a "pre mixed" version. Its meant to be very good, but I have not tried it yet as I have been happy with the normal stuff.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Ben Dixon]

Thanks Rob,

Where is the cheapest place to get it from?  Also, I am going to build a tournament rod and want to use neon orange thread for the whippings, what would you recommend in terms of colour preserver?


Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

Right, you can get all your rod building stuff direct from Mudhole in the US. They will ship direct and its not too bad, but if you are only getting bits and bobs, then Guides n blanks or David Norwich. Jakes Custom Rods down south also do Flexcoat and FC Lite.

As for colour preserver, if you are using thread that is not NCP, then I can only recommend the Flexcoat Color preserver and thread sealer at about a fiver a bottle as its the only stuff I use.

Gudebroad NCP thread does not need a preserver and has a bit of a sparkle about it in sunlight. They do an orange, but its not "neon". The alternative, and you will need to get from the states, is ProWrap colorfast thread code 225. This is proper neon orange and its the stuff I use on beach caster tips, but I have only has size D.  Fish hawk threads also do, again from the US.

However, any orange thread will dull down if whipped over black. With the beach casters, is we want the really bright colours we whip an under whipping or white or silver and then the colour over the top. Not an option for you I guess. What I did on the tips is paint the blank white with a spray paint. I then whip over it with the orange. This will make it keep its "OUCH" factor. If you use a reflective white paint, it is even better.

Are you doing the orange so you can see it better on video for analysing the casting? Might also consider using reflective tape/paint as this shows up really well on footage if a light behind the camera is used.

Hope that helps

[Ben Dixon]

Thanks Rob, what does NCP mean?  Last I heard it was a car park company.


Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

Thanks Rob, what does NCP mean?  Last I heard it was a car park company.


Ben

No Color Preserver Its one of there thread ranges that needs...NCP


Also found this reference the internal diameter of Fuji rings. As I said, Alconite is a thinner liner therefore a 6mm SiC ring will have a smaller diametr than an Alconite 6mm ring.

But they also suggest the PacBay Minima ring. Thats what I have on my switch rod. I reckin they would be lighter still, but also allowing an even smaller ring without compromising on internat diameter.

http://www.mudhole.com/Rod-Building/minima-4/TFX3XG-Titanium-Minima-Micro-Fly-Guide

Gives you weights of the ring and the internal ID.

and the fuji ones for comparison http://www.mudhole.com/Rod-Building/Silicon-Carbide-old/Fuji-ICLSG-Fly-Guides

Hopes they are useful links

[Ben Dixon]

Thanks Rob, is there a table / site anywhere that list size vs ID of Fuji Ti guides?

Also a comaprison of Minima material vs SiC would be good if available both for hardness & smoothness, I'm spending a fortune on Varivas, smoother the better!

Cheers

[Rob Brownfield]

Basically, for a given frame diameter, the Minima will give you the largest inside ID, followed by the Alconite, followed by the SiC, then the standard Oxide.

On hardness/smoothness, have a look here at the Vickers scale table.

SiC 2200 to 2400, Alconite 1300 to 1500

http://www.guidesnblanks.com/page/faq/FAQs#q-ceramic_centre_types_what_is_the_difference

The Minimas have a rating of 800-1100, but, and its an important but, when used with nylon, they have less friction than any of the ceramic rings because they have far less surface area than a ceramic ring. Look at the SiC liners, they are rectangle in cross section, not round.

Also in that link is a table showing inside diamters for a given ring. Might help you.

6mm SiC is 4.1, Alconite is 4.1, minima is 5.3

I really think I would be looking at Minimas for the ultimate lightweight, less friction, bigger ID ring or SiC for most long lived.

[Rob Brownfield]

Oh, just found the thread I was looking for, Minima are 20-30% lighter than equivalent ceramic rings!!!! Big difference!

Being used in the US for braid and mono work in spinning rods, they seem to be rsving about them.

[Ben Dixon]

Thanks Rob 

Wondering however if despite the larger contact area, the SiC guides could possibly create less friction on a shoot due to having a smoother surface?

Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

No idea. I am sure there will be a formula somewhere, but you are the scientist, I just scribble pretty pictures

I would be very surprised if it would make any noticable difference for what you are after. If you think about it, the line is barely touching the guides on a shoot, its certainly not under tension and thus friction building would be miniscule, except perhaps the butt ring where the running line is coming up from the ground and over the ring at an angle.

Nothing to stop you having a SiC butt with different running guides

I think where the friction question comes into play is when the rod is under load when playing a big fish, thats when the most friction occurs.

[Ben Dixon]

Rob,

Have you come across these?

http://www.americantackle.us/guidestitanrl.html

The strippers are those used on Helios & Helios 2.

Cheers

Ben

[Derek Roxborough]

Had a problem with Flex coat staying tacky, the Company said my mix was wrong, also the temperature is critical, I have stopped doing Flex coat and use Seymo in stead but I did do another rod with yacht varnish, I have no way of keeping the Temperature constant for the curing time, so the Seymo stuff is not so critical also much easier to remove a whipping if you need to replace a rod ring,  easgach 1

[Sandy Nelson]

Humbrol Dope will colour preserve thread perfectly and doesn't react with any of the finishing products.

I have almost always used flexcoat Litebuild for trout rods, put it on in very thin coats like Rob says, do it in a room where the temperature won't change and you will have no issues mixing it up in 4cc batches (2cc of each) i get 6 coats from a pack, if you try for more it doesn't cure properly and any less is unnecessary waste.
Seems to be hard to get at sensible prices just now though so i have got some Rod dancer lite to try on the next one, will let you know how i get on with it.

I trust Litebuild, but it took me a while to get it right, the mix is important, but an accurate measure of 4cc will work every time in a constant temp environment

Sandy

[Derek Roxborough]

Its very difficult to get a constant temperature in a 200 yr old house,especially when the stuff takes 8 hrs to go off
  easgach 1

[Ben Dixon]

I bought a lot of Flex Coat From David Norwich (bottles) and have the measuring gubbings to go with it.  Only had an issue with one batch and I don't think I mixed it for long enough.  Went OCD with all the other batches and all have hardened perfectly.

Will probably get some of the light for my next project, got the standard very cheap so not worrying about it sitting there.

Thanks all 

Anyone come across those guides I linked from American Tackle?

Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

Its very difficult to get a constant temperature in a 200 yr old house,especially when the stuff takes 8 hrs to go off
  easgach 1

Agreed!!! I used to use my daughters bedroom as it was the smallest room that I could heat..but now she is with us permanantly I have no where to "epoxy".

[Rob Brownfield]

Rob,

Have you come across these?

http://www.americantackle.us/guidestitanrl.html

These are a good example of what I was saying regarding the shape of the insert. These are round, the SIC's are not. As AT say in their advert, a round insert creates less friction as there is less surface area in contact with the line.

However, if you are looking for "hardness", the Nanolite is not as hard as SiC.

I had forgotton that Fuji does a ring that is even smoother than the the SiC..but not sure you would want to use them as they are expensive! The Fuji Gold Cermet



Titanium frame and a liner that is has hard as SiC but smoother.

Trouble is, a single foot 7mm guide is $11 and they are hard to find!

http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bingham/fujititc.html