[Mike Barrio]

Hi folks

Thought we should also have a thread for forum members to post about their days on the Ythan

Best wishes
Mike

[Sandy Nelson]

Cool

I've been on my bit 3 times now (incl. yesterday and today, water is looking fine ) and no sign of a Kelt or a finnock. There are finnock coming off at Ardlethen but probably on the worm, and i'm happy to keep trying the fly. They have to swim past my house to get to Ardlethen so i should at least have a chance.

Sandy

[Mike Barrio]

Try some wee pearly black spiders Sandy and Peter Ross

Cheers
Mike

[Dave Mundie]

I was out on Sat water was up but running fairly clear didn't touch or see anything though.
Was more concentrating on my casting after my lessons with Ben.

Hope to be out this Sat again.

Dave

[Iain Goolager]

Looking forward to your Ythan contributions Dave.

Liked the photo's from your day out, oh that's right you didn't take any... Tut tut

Iain

[Sandy Nelson]

That meant to be a hint 

Heres my bittie , Taken last wednesday afternoon




Sandy

[Iain Goolager]

Sandy,
Just a hint of a hint yes. 

Iain

[Dave Mundie]

Would have taken a photo but can't find my camera anywhere  I think I must have lost it on a bank somewhere 
Might try with my phone but prob wont be up to your standard.

Dave

[bblnb56]

Been walking down at Newburgh beach a few times lately, still hundreds of seals, not much chance of many fish getting past that lot on their way into the river.

[Loxiafan]

Been walking down at Newburgh beach a few times lately, still hundreds of seals, not much chance of many fish getting past that lot on their way into the river.

Whyzat ? Natural predators have low impact on stocks, certainly sustainable as they will self regulate. Many of the seals are only resting in the Estuary not feeding there constantly. Some of the numbers I am seeing reported are laughable quite frankly, just typical scaremongering. However, the netting station that will soon be operating in the Estuary will take thousands of sea trout and salmon easily, in addition to those taken by natural predators. Know your enemy and all that. 

Lindsay

[Duncan McRae]

Garry

I agree with you that there are hundreds of seals around Newburgh beach and although i'm sure they will take a salmon or sea trout,i have never witnessed this nor caught a seal marked fish in the estuary.

What concerns me more is how they manage to get past the hordes of fishers at Ardlethen come September.
I personally think that this small river must be suffering badly from the huge Angling pressure on this beat with very few fish getting through unhooked.

Lindsay

The netting station news has left me shocked!


Duncan

[Loxiafan]

Yes Duncan, found out about it on ADAA Forum. I am afraid the Scottish Numpty Party are not just satisfied about pushing Fish Farming beyond a sensible (and sustainable re wild stocks) remit, they seem to be pandering to the netsmen now as well ! Now, they could argue, that they too have a right to target wild stocks and when anglers start whingeing about predators, commercial fisheries etc takin "oor fush" we just sound selfish. If anglers feel strongly they should not support an Estate that runs a sport fishery as well as leasing netting rights to a commercial organisation. Vote with your feet, or if you fish there you have no grounds for complaint. Perhaps the returns from angling are down and the estate is leasing the commercial netting to make up the shortfall ? If so it is a pity that an angling syndicate or Association couldn't have been approached and leased it instead - I can think of one locally that I am sure would have been very welcomed by it's members ! If they really are just reaping the bounty of both then they are irresponsible and greedy, in my opinion. Talk about a conflict of interests. But then is it not the same with Johnston's on the North Esk ?

Now, I am not anti-fish farming per se, but if we have so much of it then why do we have to net already pressured wild stocks which are precious in terms of tourist angling as well as local recreational angling ? Has anyone surveyed to determine whether the Foveran engine is sustainable re the existing stocks ? I personally find it hard to read most of the angling press at the moment whether it is Bruce Sandison's becoming-boring-very-fast crusade against the Salmon Farming Industry or Trout Fisherman with it's "let's nuke the Cormorants" agenda as, we anglers, just sound like Victorian 'Sportsmen' eg. kill anything with hooked claw or beak or stop anything that conflicts with our own particular interests. Truth is all things have to exist together, but I agree that natural predators coupled with a netting engine could tip the balance against all interests actually, but primarily it is the fish that will suffer. The fact that anglers are saying "oh well, at least the netsmen will kill off the seals" is really worrying and is totally missing the point. If they did, the netsmen would just catch more of the fish in the estuary ! A Seal has to work for it's dinner, a net just sits there.

Maybe one of the Ythan Board will come on and enlighten us further, particulary with what the quota is for the two engines that have been leased. Truth is we don't know much about this venture, it may not be as bad as we think ot it might be terrible.

Lindsay

[Sandy Nelson]

Duncan

What about this one? This was caught in the Estuary last August, I thought it looked like seal damage, but perhaps there is another cause.



It went back, so i never really though much more of it.
But you raise an interesting point.

Sandy

[Jim Eddie]

Lindsay

I do not believe in wholsale slaughter of wildlife either, but as the apex predators I beleive its up to us to keep things in balance. I do not agree with your opinion that nature will self regulate, sometimes but not always, rabbits in australia , Cane Toads to name a few.

We cull upwards of 55,000 to 60,000 Red Deer per annum, Foxes, Crows, Badgers, Roe Deer to save tree's. some people also shoot birds and  annimals for enjoyment (as I did many years ago) I do not belive we can be to precious about this.

Faskally, St Andrews and Aberdeen Uni did reasearch into the effect of seals on Salmon stock, one of their conclusion was by removing one seal from the Moriston it would increase Salmon stock by 17%   

 

Jim         

[Loxiafan]

I do not believe in wholsale slaughter of wildlife either, but as the apex predators I beleive its up to us to keep things in balance. I do not agree with your opinion that nature will self regulate, sometimes but not always, rabbits in australia , Cane Toads to name a few.

Cane Toads and rabbits = introduced species, non native so the balance is disrupted. No problem with Wildlife management when it is justified, if you read my post I allude to this. I don't think of myself as an "apex predator" though, interesting you do.

We cull upwards of 55,000 to 60,000 Red Deer per annum, Foxes, Crows, Badgers, Roe Deer to save tree's. some people also shoot birds and  annimals for enjoyment (as I did many years ago) I do not belive we can be to precious about this.

I am not precious. I am not a 'tree-hugger' either FTR. I shot game also as a youth, in fact was a crack shot with rifle and shotgun. All Deer are shot to save trees btw, and IMO not nearly enough as natural regeneration in Deeside for example is pathetic ! See, no dogma on my part

Faskally, St Andrews and Aberdeen Uni did reasearch into the effect of seals on Salmon stock, one of their conclusion was by removing one seal from the Moriston it would increase Salmon stock by 17% 

 

I find that staggeringly difficult to believe eg, the Salmon population doubles if we shoot 6 Seals ?  Please post the actual extracts, charts etc or point me to that particular research.

Cheers,

Lindsay

[Jim Eddie]

Lindsay

If you have no problem with wildlife management when justified then we are in agreement.

The definition of an  apex predator is an animal who, as an adult, has no natural predators in its ecosystem. Last time I looked we had no natural predators.

"I find that staggeringly difficult to believe eg, the Salmon population doubles if we shoot 6 Seals"  So do I,  where did I say you could extrapolate that ? 

Here is the research paper http://www.abdn.ac.uk/lighthouse/documents/pdf/fme_504.pdf

 

Jim

[Loxiafan]

If you have no problem with wildlife management when justified then we are in agreement.

The definition of an  apex predator is an animal who, as an adult, has no natural predators in its ecosystem. Last time I looked we had no natural predators.

Jim,

Lions are classed as 'apex' predators as are Tigers. They kill to eat, we kill them to 'manage' them, or as you said before "for fun", so your definition is possibly tenuous. Both surely can't be apex. Do we 'naturally' predate Lions and Tigers ? I don't think so, we protect livestock and our own lives - they eat us ! I agree that, because we have shaped the environment (often to its detriment), then we are responsible for 'managing' it. However, I do not clearly agree with your ideas on that management, sorry.

I found and read that paper last night. It is a 'desk' scientist type paper based on counted seal numbers, often assumed, and assumed levels of predation and assumed level of consumption. I suggest you read the paper in detail especially regarding the scientists own admission of 'bias' in their results. Yes, the Moristion, based on their 'model', could increase by 17% by removing the one seal they assume is there all the time, so instead of an annual catch of 68 it would increase to a whopping 80 ! But on larger more normal rivers, the modelled effect of seal removal did not increase exponentially:

"a generalised model of seal removal illustrated that stocks and catches increased by (less than or equal to) 33% in rivers with monthly rod catches of less than or equal to 10 fish but declined to (less than or equal to) 10% with catches of more than 34 fish per month".

So, although the percentage increases look good, in reality the 'model' predicts that seal removal on a river where less than 10 fish are caught per month this would result in 13/14 fish per month. On a 'good' river, like the Dee or Don (!) we can expect a 10% increase in rod catches.

The paper also concludes that the impact of seals on stocks is worse in Spring. As the Ythan is not a 'spring' river for either Salmon or Sea Trout I would take it that the impact is lower than is being made out.

For what it is worth, I think it is a very useful paper to allow river managers and governing bodies to monitor policy and appropriate action on wildlife management.   But it is easy to extract 'sound bytes' and sensationalise figures, when in fact the whole picture needs to be rationalised.

I've said enough on this now, we will just have to agree to disagree  

Cheers,

Lindsay

[Jim Eddie]

Lindsay

We both agree on the main point as you said "wildlife management when justified" if managing seal numbers has no justification I don't have a problem with that either.

 

Jim

 

[Duncan McRae]

Hi Sandy

Nice sea trout.
The marks certainly look like they might have been made by a seal but i suppose there might be many other possiblities.

I like your photo of the river further upstream it's a lovely spot.
Around 5 years ago i put my name on the waiting list for membership there but have not heard anything since!
Have you a season ticket?

Regards
Duncan

[Sandy Nelson]

Have you a season ticket?

Sort of, i got the fishing rights for One rod with my house . It belongs to the property so i don't intend moving anytime soon

Sandy

[Jim Eddie]

Hi Sandy

Nice sea trout.
The marks certainly look like they might have been made by a seal but i suppose there might be many other possiblities.

I like your photo of the river further upstream it's a lovely spot.
Around 5 years ago i put my name on the waiting list for membership there but have not heard anything since!
Have you a season ticket?

Regards
Duncan

Duncan my club has 1 mile double bank just south of Fyvie and 2 miles single bank on the Braes on Minonnie we are loooking for new members, however it helps if you are in the Civil Service. I could enquire about an assocaite membership if you are interested.

 

Jim

[Duncan McRae]

Sandy

Wish i could find a deal like that!


Jim

Thanks for your kind offer.
I have actually just moved house from Ellon to the Alford area so probably too far away now.
I have fished just downstream at Methlick for years now and regard it as one of favourite beats so i would recommend your beat to anyone looking for fishing on the Ythan.

Duncan

[Rob Brownfield]

Sandy

Wish i could find a deal like that!

It is possible.

I can fish "my" beat on the Dee any time after or before the paying guests are off the water. In 5 years I have not wet a line

I will this year though. Most guests are off by 6 in the evening so a few hours fishing is possible.

[Sandy Nelson]

Got an Hour or so this afternoon.
Bloody cold, but the water is clearing nicely Not too high either.
Fished through with a 1/2" tungsten black/red tube and a fast sinking tip, Finally got a decent pull Hurrah, but was so busy in a daydream that i missed it completely . So no idea how big or what it was. But it was a fish, so its a start.

If the weather stays reasonable then might be worth a cast next week

Sandy

[Sandy Nelson]

Been down for a couple of Hours this afternoon.
The water is getting lower and is quite clear.

Lots of flies hatching off all afternoon
Including these bad boys

March Browns



Large Dark Olives



I didnt see anything rising or any Tourists moving But it was a lovely afternoon to be on the river.

Does it get much better than this.........well a fish or two would have been the cherry, hopefully they wake up soon




Sandy