Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #75 on: 20/02/2013 at 09:02 »
JT this JT that!   ZX2

2 separate stages of tied in lead wire? supergluin' and flattening?

Tie a PTN and use up the saved time to read up on CDC Gel  :z7 :X2

@ Iain, ah, but the flattening gives the nymph some scope as a Hepta as well, and takes no time really ! Also, curved hook looks better to me for some reason - maybe even works as a scud/shrimp thingy. If it is all the same, I will take 7 times English River Champion as gospel  :wink Your nymph is excellent though  :z16

@ Alex, cheeky boy, now that you are also a 'believer' your CDC is the 'wrong' colour for a JT Olive, tsk tsk !   :wink  :z4

Lindsay Tierack ( Chairman of JT Fanclub Scottish Branch).

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #76 on: 20/02/2013 at 10:17 »
If Carlsberg made flies, then it'd be this one:



The jury is out on this one though, certainly for Don:



Crap pic of my MB nymph ala JT et Iain Goolager:



Just got my PTN's and larger DHE's to do and all set for early season !

Lindsay


Iain Goolager

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #77 on: 20/02/2013 at 10:35 »
Quote
If it is all the same, I will take 7 times English River Champion as gospel

LT  :z4 :z4 you make me laugh, you rascal you!

by the way, my tungsten beaded, lead wrapped thoraxed MB nymph is heavier so is therefore a better 'stoneclinger' than yours  :z7

Iain

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #78 on: 20/02/2013 at 11:15 »
Yep, yours defo a bit heavier, but the "double wrapped" one (lead on abdo and then thorax x2) is actually pretty heavy but certainly no depth charge.

Actually looking at "my" JT Olive with reference to your excellent MB cripple I have had a kind of epiphany  :shock I always thought the forward sloping wing on a JT was really unrepresentative of a Dun (with its backward sloping wings) but it has never seemed to bother the fish ! But I wonder in the effectiveness (efficacy ?) of this fly is due to it's vulnerability ? With no collar hackle it rides low in the water or even in the surface (the moleskin soaks water) and the forward sloping wings might be representative of a cripple ? Either way it seems a "generalist" pattern.

Just been reading my Bob Wyatt stuff and this certainly echoes his philosophy of triggers and vulnerablity and what equates as "easy" trout food. I'm gonna tie some JT's in 12's maybe 10's OMG  :shock to test this theory during a MB hatch. I reckon my big JT could do the same job as a cripple/emerger pattern. Maybe.

Nice One.

Linzer

PS I am going to carry my CDC Gel so if I bump in to on the river you can prep a JT for me ! That said, fake FF from USA has turned up and looks the Sh1t from what I can tell.....and loads of it !

Iain Cameron

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #79 on: 20/02/2013 at 12:56 »
If Carlsberg made flies, then it'd be this one:
...

The jury is out on this one though, certainly for Don:
...

Crap pic of my MB nymph ala JT et Iain Goolager:
...

Just got my PTN's and larger DHE's to do and all set for early season !

all very nice flies, Mr TieRack. Like the light catching the fibres on the legs of the nymph.

Middle one... you can always tweak it (cripple it?!) by snipping off all the hackle beneath the shank... eeek!

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #80 on: 20/02/2013 at 13:13 »
Middle one... you can always tweak it (cripple it?!) by snipping off all the hackle beneath the shank... eeek!

Yes Iain, was thinking clipped hackle myself just looking at it earlier ! I think (?) the Clyde/Tweed guys will often tease the hackle in to an almost spent spinner type arrangement but vertical rather horizontal. It sure looks good on the water but I wonder if it is just too big a target for our Don trutta ?

Any of you guys tried a size 10 (!) DHS ala Bob W for a MB Dun ? He says it works well on the Don, so I guess it works !

L

Alex Burnett

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #81 on: 20/02/2013 at 13:41 »

@ Alex, cheeky boy, now that you are also a 'believer' your CDC is the 'wrong' colour for a JT Olive, tsk tsk !   :wink  :z4
Lindsay Tierack ( Chairman of JT Fanclub Scottish Branch).

No just a bad photo, here is one taken today in daylight.



Olive on the left Olive Dun on the right.  :wink

Alex

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #82 on: 20/02/2013 at 14:21 »
Nice CdC Alex. I use 'Dark Brown' Swiss (which looks dark brown) and River Academy Cdc for JT Olive. Looks wrong in the hand but right on the water ! I reckon Dun would work too....

L

Alex Burnett

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #83 on: 20/02/2013 at 14:24 »
My plan Lindsay is to tie up 1 doz of each on size 17 & 19 103BL hooks & see what the fish prefer.
I feel it will depend on the hatch & the light conditions at the time.  :wink

No doubt Iain (Mr G) will be telling me I am tying in bulk again  :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4


Alex

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #84 on: 20/02/2013 at 14:34 »
My plan Lindsay is to tie up 1 doz of each on size 17 & 19 103BL hooks & see what the fish prefer.
I feel it will depend on the hatch & the light conditions at the time.  :wink

No doubt Iain (Mr G) will be telling me I am tying in bulk again  :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4

These are quick as hell to tie so yes by the dozen for me too ! 17 good for LDO (but 19 too), 21 for BWO etc in summer  :z16

L

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #85 on: 20/02/2013 at 20:53 »
Another "must have" Bob Wyatt's DHE size 14 long wing version, tied the "neat" way eg. butts not trimmed on exterior. Outfishes Klink (for me) but not as useful for Duo. Great prospecting fly too.




Lindsay

Mike Barrio

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #86 on: 20/02/2013 at 21:50 »
Another "must have" Bob Wyatt's DHE size 14 long wing version, tied the "neat" way eg. butts not trimmed on exterior. Outfishes Klink (for me) but not as useful for Duo. Great prospecting fly too.




Lindsay

Nice, very nice! :z16
Cheers
Mike

Irvine Ross

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #87 on: 21/02/2013 at 08:25 »
Another "must have" Bob Wyatt's DHE size 14 long wing version, tied the "neat" way eg. butts not trimmed on exterior. Outfishes Klink (for me) but not as useful for Duo. Great prospecting fly too.

Lindsay

Lindsay

You let the secret out  :X1 That is the only dry fly you need on the Don until the end of May. After that a parachute Adams and an elk hair caddis will do fine. Dump all those CdeC things. Ian doesn't really use them, he just posts photographs of them on the forum to confuse the opposition :wink

Irvine

Peter McCallum

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #88 on: 21/02/2013 at 08:27 »
In a size 14 have you tried using snowshoe hare foot as a wing Lindsay? Finer and better floating IMHO, I think Bob Wyatt uses it in some flies now

Peter

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #89 on: 21/02/2013 at 13:23 »
@ Irvine Ssshhh, of course there are other flies that work on the Don early season !  :wink Tbh I had other flies that outfished the DHE at times last season  :roll It is also a fly folk find difficult to tie and also to fish with out cocking, apparently. So my advice, STAY AWAY unless you are a professional  :z4 Re Goolager, I spent (limited) time on the bank with him early season and can confirm he does not fish a DHE, but he has all kinds of stuff in his fly box ! Iain definitely fishes CdC patterns extensively as it then fully justifies his Veniards CDC Gel 'habit'  :z4

@ Peter, yes have tried the SHE, in fact there must be loads of two legged Hares going about judging by how many I have in my FT bag ( I do hope they are sustainable). However, at size 14 I still prefer Deer Hair, as I can gauge the clump better and know to remove the underfur with a wee comb - I find the SHE harder to tie, as it is difficult to get the right bulk to tie in eg. how much underfur to remove. Shame someone that knows what they are doing couldn't show me how - even Bobs vid doesn't help much in this respect ! I will be using it more this season though.  :z16

Cheers,

Lindsay

Allan Liddle

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #90 on: 24/02/2013 at 10:17 »
DHE is my go to dry and has been for some years now, since Bob's first script on it in FFFT.
Deadly fly that's a lot more versatile than a straight forward dry.

DH version good in sizes down to 14 (below that the deer hair is a bit too bulky and you can't get the shape right)

Snowshoe is good for the smaller sizes, but i prefer switching to the Dirty Duster (another of Bob's) which offers both an excellent dry as well as quite a handy spider.

DHE:

S12 Olive or Nat HE; Deadly early season especially when LDO's, Olive Uprights and MB's are the trout's quarry of choice.
Outstanding as a searching pattern especially in rough water or when nothing much is happening.
However it's brilliant on upland streams through the season where trout are generally 'looking up.'

It is also brilliant in fast water through the season. 
It is versatile in the sense that it can be fished successfully as a nymph or just sub-surface emerging pattern as well, crippled ones fished 'Duo' style are deadly, especially when you fish the two dry set up i tend to use. (I've even been known to pull the wings off, leaving a wee stump in order to present a fly that sits literally just below the surface, but in truth all you really need do is stick a few chewed ones into the corner of the box)

Again in fast water, especially if you've turned a fish or covered one to no response, simply spit on the fly and pitch it (no drying false cast or just hit the water hard to drown it if you don't fancy gobbing on the fly  :z4) so it fishes through as a wet, dead run first couple casts then fig 8 retrieve if that dosen't work.  Hold in tight.

Heavy wing patterns good for duo, but agree Klinks are better, however if you fish the style with the DHE on a dropper it sits correctly and you can see it better.

Tie it with Orvis light blue comparadun DH for a crackin BWO pattern s14, great for late May through June, and again late August (upland waters) through September.

Dirty Duster is another excellent and very versatile fly.  Again great as a straight forward dry, but also with the ability to be fished as a spider.  Excellent for downstream work in a big wind when olives are being 'pushed' by the wind and 'drowned' by the wave action meaning fish are more responsive to 'swinging dries' (yes i know what the books say, but this really does work better in these conditions for all but the most sheltered , usually in the slack water margins, and 'locked on' fish)
Probably not as good for fooling 'Rod Benders' but great for general fishing.
That said i had two grilse last season in the space of a few casts fishing the DD wet, so you never know.

I wouldn't say it's an out and out spider, and traditional patterns probably much better if you're setting out to fish this style, what i am merely trying to highlight is the versatility of a pattern that allows you to try something different instantly when on the water.

Also try it with an underbody of pearly lurex with black dubbed body over in 12's 14's or 16's on lochs as it's a brilliant Buzzer Emerger patern for loch dry work.  Not too bad as a Black Gnat imitation either.

There's no flies ever tied that cover all bases, however these two come pretty close. 

If anyone's down at the GAC Open Event this coming weekend, give's a shout as i'll be trying these flies amongst others.

All that's left for me to say is a huge Thanks to Bob, changed my approach, simple is best.

Regards

Allan L

I'll follow this up with a couple of SBS on both.  :z16

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #91 on: 24/02/2013 at 23:38 »
I've never used DHE in anything bigger that size 14 so will maybe have to try a 12 !  :z16 Did use 16's a lot last year and managed with fine coastal DH, but tended to aim for a sparse, almost vertical wing and ginked liberally !

L

Irvine Ross

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #92 on: 25/02/2013 at 19:03 »
I've never used DHE in anything bigger that size 14 so will maybe have to try a 12 ! 
L

Lindsay

You sure will. I only use size12 when LDOs and March browns are hatching. Maybe you have only little runts on the lower river but up above Alford they are big.

Irvine

Iain Goolager

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #93 on: 25/02/2013 at 19:14 »
I agree Irvine, large fish were taken last season on big DHE's.

Iain

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #94 on: 25/02/2013 at 21:14 »
I only use size12 when LDOs and March browns are hatching. Maybe you have only little runts on the lower river but up above Alford they are big.

No, no runts. I actually checked my fly box and I have 4 size 12's from last season...but they were unused ! My "dun" size for LDO is size 17  :shock It is rarely refused ! I use size 14 DHE as an all rounder. I have always been of the school use a size smaller than the natural and it is no bad thing but this talk of wallopers on size 12 and 10 DHE's might make me have a rethink. They do look 'obsence' though, sorta thing a Yank would toss at a troot !  :z4

Ofta buy some size 12 2200BL-B's !

Lindsay

Allan Liddle

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #95 on: 26/02/2013 at 20:15 »
Funny that i'm thinking of fishing smaller.  :shock
Still i might just have to continue to think like a Yank.  :z4
If you think this is big, what about the 12 longshank Turk's Tri's for upland or rough stream prospecting, or size 8 sproat Veyatie Blacks ginked and aimed at Danica feeders on our big mayfly venues.
B100's and squash the barb on the vice Lindsay

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #96 on: 26/02/2013 at 20:58 »
Funny that i'm thinking of fishing smaller.  :shock...B100's and squash the barb on the vice Lindsay

Size 16 was my best DHE last season by a long way. Have ordered 12's in my preferred Varivas but also put down for some B100's and aye I always debarb.

Cheers,

Lindsay

Allan Liddle

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #97 on: 27/02/2013 at 14:28 »
Might have just been me, but three rapid losses on trophies (rod benders) in two outings with the Vivaris hooks very quickly had them relegated back into the corner of the box and the B100's back off the subs bench.
Even the capture of a rod bender on the vivaris prior to the losses didn't sway it or even stay my hand, and with the way it was last year it wasn't long before another opportunity came along on the 100's.

Very probably coincidental, but once you've that wee doubt in there..................

Loxiafan

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #98 on: 27/02/2013 at 15:54 »
Must admit not had any real probs with Varivas 2200BL's so far except one that opened a bit on a 1 pounder - fish still landed ! The 3lb Broonies, 3 lb Sea Troots, no problems.  :z8  I wonder if there are bad batches ? But you are right Allan, if you have any doubts bin them ! Same with tippet.

Lindsay

Marc Fauvet

Re: Re-stocking for 2013
« Reply #99 on: 27/02/2013 at 17:54 »
I wonder if there are bad batches ?
oh yes, and when that happens it can be dozens/hundreds of thousands of hooks dispersed around the globe...
i've had straightening-out issues with some Varivas hooks. not going back to those models for sure.

cheers,
marc

 




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