[Mike Barrio]

Hi folks

The subject of SANA came up in the rod licence thread .... Scottish Anglers National Association http://www.sana.org.uk/

I think it would be fair to say that SANA is somewhat lacking in our support nowadays for a variety of reasons, but is it perhaps time to move on and look for ways of moving forward in a positive manner with our national anglers association?

I would truly like to see SANA get back on track, or if this is just not possible, maybe replaced by something else. I also think the association would benefit from much greater support from individual membership, rather than the historical club membership.

Most of the problems in the past have arisen from the competition side of the association in my opinion ......... But perhaps if SANA were to come away from competition angling altogether, no more national leagues, no more national teams -  and hand all of the competition side of things to SANACC ( the seperate organisation ) and politely ask that they change their name to something that did not include "SANA" in it, there might possibly still be a chance that anglers would get behind SANA and support them?

There are volunteers who work hard in the association and a new SANA could focus on so much more!

What are your thoughts folks? ( Positive thoughts please! )

Best wishes
Mike

[Peter McCallum]

Think a name change at least is necessary Mike.

Historically, virtually all the money SANA  came from competitions and it was definitely the tail wagging the dog when decisions were being made. I agree the competitions should be completely separate from SANA but their funding was mainly from Sport Scotland (or whatever they are called now) who dealt with all governing bodies of all sports and have to have some mechanism for funding and the easiest way to assess that is through competition results, hence a reluctance to completely ditch competitions IMHO (witness the funding cuts for Olympic athletes in sports not doing well).

If I recall correctly (at least when I was involved) individual members would have to put a proposal to the AGM removing club membership and insisting everyone be an individual member. But there are few individual members and all the clubs are members of SANA because of competitions.

Bit of a catch 22 but if enough individuals were to 'gang up' it could be done.

There are a lot of people who give of their time (and in some cases large sums of their own money) to work for SANA who need recognition but there are some notable cases of 'foot shooting' which continues the bad press SANA gets.

[Mike Barrio]

What do you, as anglers in Scotland, expect of the body that represents your interests to do on your behalf

[Hamish Young]

Interesting question that Mr B, IMHO to robustly and fairly represent anglers and be answerable to SANA members.
That would be a good start.

H

[Rob Brownfield]

I would expect fair and equal representation no matter what I fished for. Unfortunately the hierarchy that exists means that this won't happen in my lifetime.

[Mike Barrio]

As anglers in Scotland, what are your thoughts:

Should SANA be reviewed in the face of a new type of angling philosophy?

Where do forum members think the biggest changes are for SANA in the 21st century

[Mike Barrio]

I'm getting the impression that the limited response to this thread may possibly sum up where SANA currently stands as the Scottish Anglers National Association

Best wishes
Mike

[Kevin Moss]

I would agree Mike.Sad though it is.
It is a fact that its only when something effects us directly that we do a bit of shouting and that can be in some cases far too late.
When the rod license issue was raised far more gave opinions and luckily in time,but its something I believe is not going to go away.

Firstly I would like to see an open page where anglers could put there suggestions and what they want from an organisation,where they would like to see money spent,where it is needed to be spent,that they would feel happy they are getting a return from it.This would have to come from SANA on their website for starters.

I would also like to see a name change to something along the lines of "Scottish Anglers Trust" with at least 2 full time employees,minimum, who are working and accountable to anglers for the work they do.

All monies,being a trust stays and helps anglers and angling and not a tax.

Less commitees would be a start aswell.

Competitons are a part of angling but they are not the be all and end all of angling.Many still enjoy them and so they are a part  which is still required.
I would also like to see who and where and how much of the money given out so we could all see where it goes and this would show if it is being spent well or not.I don't like accounts which just show x amount in this or x amount to here.I would like to see who has had what, individually.

Any membership with numbers has power to arrange good deals for its members,be it tackle or insurances as an example, which in itself has to be worth to anyone in hard times like we have at present,got to be worth paying,along with having a voice against environmental issues raised and government would listen to larger well represented organisations in fear of loss of votes.
We also need something such as Fish legal which takes cases for angling and anglers individually to court and rpresents them in civil matters and criminal if it is warranted.Polluters will get hit two ways getting twice the fine rather than just one.

That's just a few for me.The important part is ,that it would be the anglers organisation,they each would have a say and a voice within it and not run behind closed doors.

The past is the past  and it takes a new start but could be done.  

Ps forgot to say that it has to represent all parts of angling and not just a particular species as it suggests at this moment in time.

[Rob Brownfield]

Ps forgot to say that it has to represent all parts of angling and not just a particular species as it suggests at this moment in time.

The website pretty much screams, "Salmon and Trout".

One of my frustrations in Scottish angling is the lack of one body that looks after ALL anglers. There are so many fragmented associations and organisations it is impossible to know who to turn to or support.

No matter what we fish for or indeed, how we fish for them, we ALL have a vested interest in the fishing, pollution, abstraction and so on. The list is truely endless.

With an estimated 60,000 coarse and sea anglers in Scotland, plus many trout and salmon anglers fishing for other species these days, I truely wish SANA was just that, truely representative of Scottish Anglers, Nationally!.

[Peter McCallum]

I truely wish SANA was just that, truely representative of Scottish Anglers, Nationally!.

though it pains me slightly in SANA's defence there are national associations for sea & coarse anglers in scotland Rob.....maybe the fact you don't know/mention them speaks even more about coarse/Sea anglers than Game anglers

[Kevin Moss]

though it pains me slightly in SANA's defence there are national associations for sea & coarse anglers in scotland Rob.....maybe the fact you don't know/mention them speaks even more about coarse/Sea anglers than Game anglers

There in lies the problem Peter.

That is why we need 1 organisation to represent all anglers,no matter what they fish for.It then becomes a one stop shop that anglers know where and who to go to if they have a problem or for information.

I do agree also with Rob,not only does the website and the main leaning is toward not salmon and trout ,but Salmon and sea trout.I too would like to see this change and be equal across the board.All our fish are important and deserve looking after.

One thing is for sure if They don't change the support will continue to dwindle.I have put my proposals in and it is down to anglers ,if they care about enough,to do the same.

[Irvine Ross]

I have spent the last several years happily ignorant of the existence of SANA or what they do. So the question arises, would we be any worse off if it ceased to exist? Maybe they should pack up their tents and leave the field clear for somebody else to start afresh without any of their baggage? National Scottish associations for sea and coarse anglers? Never heard of them either!

Irvine

[Allan Liddle]

Sorry guys, have to side with Peter on this one and as both of us have, in the past, been involved in one of those 'committees' within SANA that is so poorly thought of by some here, we also know what comes with the territory when you put your head above the parapet in a bid to do something as simple as put a little back into your sport.  So, after what i can only describe as one of the less savoury experiencies i've had in angling when even people i knew with some amazingly involved in the same section (SANA Coaching) were quick and keen to stick the preverbial boot in, i am of the opinion that to take anything like this forward you need rhino skin.  Selfish motives, petty vendettas, green eyes or simply a case of becoming a target, nope been there and for this reason as they say on a certain TV show 'I'm out.'

A single body to help drive / focus all anglers in Scotland?  Yup agree united we stand and we really would, if properly organised and focussed, have a body with the potential to be a strong as say the birdwatching brigade, but it would take someone with huge strength and conviction to drive this forward.  Maybe you've found your vocation Kevin?

Sadly SANA interest has certainly waned since the split of the competition section which says more about the focus and drive of our anglers than it does about the state of our countries angling scene.

[Rob Brownfield]

though it pains me slightly in SANA's defence there are national associations for sea & coarse anglers in scotland Rob.....maybe the fact you don't know/mention them speaks even more about coarse/Sea anglers than Game anglers

Ahem.

The Scottish Federation of Coarse Anglers (of which I am a member) and the Scottish Federation of Sea Anglers both have extremely limited powers. They have a voice, and have done some very good things, but the voice will always be a minority. Both are working with SANA in promoting angling in Scotland, but both are having issues with SANA throwing its weight about.

One body, one aim, it's the only way.

[Kevin Moss]

I would say we all agree that the solution is clearly there.

It does need a clean sweep of the brush to get rid of the past and there is no shame to starting a fresh.It would need cooperation and those involved would have to do it for the right reasons.To help Angling and anglers have to be the aims.
Personally I can see the benefits of one organisation and if many dont know about SANA then this clearly shows something isnt right and to trundle on is a waste of time and effort and funding.

There are so many fragmented bodies in angling fighting for funding and much is going to waste on flash in the pan projects with little or no return to the sport,what a waste.Then there are clubs who are fighting for their lives to retain fishings and cant get funding to carry on.This is only one example of help which could be afforded by an organisation supported by all anglers.
Simple question to ask ourselves.This is only one example of many.

If our fishing was going to be lost on our river,loch,stillwater  whatever,would we feel it was worth paying a small annual fee  each year that in the event of potentially losing our fishing,OUR organisation was able to step in and save it for us?

If the answer is no then its not worth even starting it. If yes then it is.

As I said before it would have to be transparent in audits and show where every penny went and who benefited from it.The spread has to benefit the many and not just the few.The made words have to be" benefit to angling and anglers".

Much has been wasted on trying to bring more anglers into the sport imo,better to benefit the ones already in it and when new ones join it can grow and they will then see the benefit.

Apoligies to Mike,but you posed the question lol  

[Rob Brownfield]

National Scottish associations for sea and coarse anglers? Never heard of them either!

Irvine

Unless you are into competition fishing in these fields, it is unlikely that you would come across them. Also, the SFCA is pretty much concentrated around Glasgow/Edinburgh and south of these two, where the biggest concentration of coarse anglers is.

Both, however, have a coaching system and casting instructors.

[Kevin Moss]

Rob that is very true.

I had asked some of the coaches from the coarse side to come up and do a weekend introduction as there was alot of interest.they were all for it but it never happened.I know they have all the equipment,the coaches, the funding and all they needed was the water and the potential anglers.THEY WERE there for them to expand but it never happened.

These are things which need to happen.Under one organisation with the get up and go rather than the plod here and there going nowhere ,it could help all parts of the sport grow.Smaller seperate organisations will remain just that and only benefit few where as working together have a bigger voice,bigger funding more know about it and it can get bigger.That way Everyone benefits,not just one or two .

[Rob Brownfield]

Smaller seperate organisations will remain just that and only benefit few where as working together have a bigger voice,bigger funding more know about it and it can get bigger.

Totally agreed. I used to be on the committee for a national Pike angling organisation, in fact, it is still the biggest single species club in Scotland, but even that was to small to make a real impact.

Slightly off subject, but hopefully I will make the point, I am on the committee for a UK charity that looks after servicemen, service women and their dependents. The organisation just celebrated its 125th birthday, so you could say they are well established, but we were little known, even within the military. Perhaps a little like SANA?

We have experienced a significant dip in donations in the last 5-7 years because there are many smaller charities poping up left right and centre. Many of these charities are repeating the services offerred by ourselves, but on a smaller scale. They are also presenting a confusing message to the public, and some have even suggested they are milking the public for their own gain.

We recently went through a huge change and teamed up with the Royal British Legion, Help for Heros, BLESMA and Combat Stress, the major players, and formed one united body who can offer ALL services, but with better backing, better exposure, and a better service. It also meant that we could see how other large organisations handled certain things, and we learnt a lot, and visa versa. We now have a stronger organisation with one hell of a lot of clout and respect.

I see the same format being required for angling in Scotland.

[Derek Roxborough]

I was an Individual member of sana and was on the first coaching courses run by them, I was asked to be on the migratory committee but because of the distance to meetings I had to decline, but the focus of sana seemed always to be on the central belt anglers, I suggested that some meetings could be held further north but this was counted out as most of the committees came from central Scotland, and seemed predominantly interested in competitions, a pity, because we do need a body to speak for angling throughout Scotland, but how do you overcome the logistics of meetings?, easgach 1

[Allan Liddle]

Computers Derek, the more we use them the less need there is for people to travel long distances for routine mundane meetings.

[Rob Brownfield]

Computers Derek, the more we use them the less need there is for people to travel long distances for routine mundane meetings.

Yes and no. I am well used to video confrencing etc at work, but it is difficult to build a raport with someone if you are not in the same room.

[Kevin Moss]

Many meetings are just a social and done as part of the regular routine which is again a waste of peoples time and money.Meetings should not be held for the sake of having a meeting ,they have to be productive.I also agree they should not be held in the same place all the time.As Alan said these days much can be done via Skype,less cost to everyone.

The interest has to be there for any organisation to move forward and it has to be fairly represented.