Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Mike Barrio

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #75 on: 14/02/2013 at 16:48 »
A topic about fly lines ... and we discuss not using one ... I love it :z4  :z4  :z4

Cheers
Mike

Alex Burnett

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #76 on: 14/02/2013 at 16:55 »
I did not start it :X2

Noel Kelly

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #77 on: 14/02/2013 at 17:12 »
Still need a fly line to pack out the reel Mike! Don't want nasty coils on your 60ft leader now do you.

Mike Barrio

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #78 on: 14/02/2013 at 17:46 »
Still need a fly line to pack out the reel Mike! Don't want nasty coils on your 60ft leader now do you.

and everybody will want theirs to be a different colour :z4  :z4  :z4

Marc Fauvet

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #79 on: 14/02/2013 at 18:59 »
A topic about fly lines ... and we discuss not using one ... I love it :z4  :z4  :z4

Cheers
Mike
:z4 :z4 :z4    :z18

Marc Fauvet

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #80 on: 14/02/2013 at 19:01 »
Still need a fly line to pack out the reel Mike! Don't want nasty coils on your 60ft leader now do you.

that's where silk lines excel...  :X2  :z8 :z2 :z4

Iain Goolager

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #81 on: 14/02/2013 at 20:00 »
I hope I don't meet any of you new generation faux fly fishermen on the river this year with your Jan Smedvig or Hercule Tzandek methods 'cos I'm gonna cast my 22gram Dubrovnik spinner on a 92 feet level leader right over your 14' 1 wt full flex Streambreak rods.

 Darius Mepplob

Iain Goolager

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #82 on: 14/02/2013 at 20:05 »
On a serious note I'm looking forward to leader to reel nymphing and dry fly fishing this season but not at the expense of the fish that require a traditional set up due to nature of expansive sections of the Don.


Iain

Rob Brownfield

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #83 on: 15/02/2013 at 09:22 »
I will try to get Korrie Broos to come on and explain...but I can assure you you can lob a
size 22 midge pattern, as I have said I have done it & caught fish.

Hmmmm...surely you are "lobbing" the weight of the leader?

I would be interested to see the technique though as when broken down, I cannot see any difference between French Laeader techniques and Tenkara.

Marc Fauvet

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #84 on: 15/02/2013 at 13:19 »
I cannot see any difference between French Laeader techniques and Tenkara.

it's like comparing elephants and shoe-laces...   ZX2

Alex Burnett

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #85 on: 15/02/2013 at 14:16 »
it's like comparing elephants and shoe-laces...   ZX2

 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4

Loxiafan

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #86 on: 15/02/2013 at 14:33 »
With the Fish On 'French Leaders' you can cast them 'like' a fly line, it is maybe not exactly the same and Ben et al may well cringe (!), but the leader does 'turn over' (with a dry). You can also 'lob' them. These are tapered (knotted) mono leaders. You can see my hero JT demonstrate this on his last River Academy Doov:d.

The disadvantage or flaw in this mono 'technique' as I see it, and as can be seen in the link to the vid I posted on LTH last year on another thread, is that the bottom of the forward loop often touches down well before the end of the leader turns over meaning there is surface tension (drag) on the mono before the fly lands - not a huge problem I guess. Presumably this is all caused by the 'wrong physics' - most of the weight is there in the bottom of the forward loop and the top of the loop does not have enough weight or inertia to adequately overtake (?) the bottom loop. Probably talking pish here...

On suggesting the "Whisper" type lines I acknowledged that, as Marc raised, these would be more prone to surface drag, but also that they would have more weight and inertia to turn over a leader and fly at (resonable) distance, the 'killing zone', whilst still remaining 'stealthy'. It was Jeremy Lucas that pondered whether such lines in the Rio LT Trout range may have a place in LTH type applications. Given that the main advantage of using a mono leader in FN style in UK is apparently to minimize drag, perhaps such Rio lines don't work.......though presumably being thinner and lighter they maybe they would ??

I also agree fully with IA that expansive sections of the Don will be uselss for any of these techniques, especially when the wind blows, fish lying tight in to your bank (all my best fish last season were caught 1-10 feet from bank) etc etc. My river fly lines will never be reduntant unlike JL.

Lindsay (NE Scotland Agent for Ferrets Pheromone)

Rob Brownfield

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #87 on: 15/02/2013 at 14:42 »
it's like comparing elephants and shoe-laces...   ZX2

http://looptackledesigneng.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/loop-team-member-sean-cassidy-on-french-nymphing/
http://www.tenkarabum.com/

Long rod - Check
Sensitive tip - Check
Light rod - Check
Long Leader - Check
Tapered Leader - Check
Heavy butt - Check
Fished upstream and across - Check
Flies allowed to drift downstream before being lifted off - Check

Yep..totally different. If one wants to add several ounces to the outfit by sticking a reel on it and saying its a completely different method, be my guest :)

Marc Fauvet

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #88 on: 16/02/2013 at 08:53 »
hi Rob,
what's missing on your list is the presentation technique: the casting

tenkara is just another fly rod. nothing more, nothing less.
the line is attached to the rod tip and there is no reel but otherwise casting and fly presentation is exactly the same as with 'conventional' modern kit.
 the line/leader's mass is used to pull the flies behind and the goal is to form loops on the back and front casts.

euro-nymphing in it's strictest sense, is/was never about casting size 20 dry flies but teams of very heavy tungsten-filled nymphs. it's much closer to lure/spinning/whatever where the the weight at the tip (flies) pulls the line. this doesn't leave much possibilities for loops, therefore the lobbing.

as far as nymphing is concerned, basically the confusion stems from many people hybridizing different methods while calling them french, czech or whatever. i of course have no problems with myself or others mixing methods, it's the spice of life but let's be real, we're not nymphing if we're casting dry flies...

cheers,
marc


Iain Goolager

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #89 on: 16/02/2013 at 11:46 »
It's closer to lure fishing / spinning!!!!!!

Marc,

You have just made me very sad, I'm off for a lie down.

Iain

Alex Burnett

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #90 on: 16/02/2013 at 13:34 »



euro-nymphing in it's strictest sense, is much closer to lure/spinning

it's like comparing elephants and shoe-laces...   ZX2

Sorry Marc could not resist  :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4

Alex

Loxiafan

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #91 on: 16/02/2013 at 16:31 »
...but let's be real, we're not nymphing if we're casting dry flies...

"drymphing" ?  :wink

I agree. You may be using a "French Leader", but that doesn't mean you are "French Nymphing" ! Maybe that boy Jez is right to call it "Leader To Hand" afterall ? :z8 I still say the limitations of casting (conventionally) are as per my post yesterday so I still want my Barrio #0 and #1 if it is all the same !  :z4

Lindsay (er, does anyone need some white powder ?)

PS I find that using my completely reduntant CDC Gel/Oil to lubricate my rod rings gives excellent "shoot" whilst using LTH technique and boy does the line float  :X2

Mike Barrio

Re: Under Development ...................... New
« Reply #92 on: 16/02/2013 at 16:46 »
Hi Lindsay,

I might struggle to get a 0#, or a #1 on the core that we use, but I have a #2 on order at the factory.

Cheers
Mike

Ben Dixon

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #93 on: 16/02/2013 at 18:41 »

PS I find that using my completely reduntant CDC Gel/Oil to lubricate my rod rings gives excellent "shoot"

Anything that requires ring lubrication is not for me

Peter McCallum

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #94 on: 16/02/2013 at 18:55 »
Anything that requires ring lubrication is not for me

 :shock :X2 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4 :z4

Loxiafan

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #95 on: 16/02/2013 at 19:12 »
Anything that requires ring lubrication is not for me

Easy for you to say, I have to take all the help I can get  :oops  :z4.......with ROD rings.....actually, that doesn't sound any better ! :z6

Shame about the core Mike, a #2 might do but I am tempted to try a 0# Rio, see if I can cast it all of 10 yards.....just need 75 sheets  :shock

L

Loxiafan

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #96 on: 18/02/2013 at 23:35 »
but I have a #2 on order at the factory.

Cheers Mike,

OOI what line are you doing the #2 in ?

Cheers,

Lindsay

Mike Barrio

Re: Under Development ...................... New
« Reply #97 on: 18/02/2013 at 23:43 »
Hi Lindsay,

I have Mallard DT2F lines on order at the moment.

Loxiafan

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #98 on: 18/02/2013 at 23:51 »
Nice !  :z16 Olive colour ? !  :wink

Might be nice on a #3 Streamflex that....

Lindsay

Korrie Broos

Re: Under Development ......................
« Reply #99 on: 09/03/2013 at 08:35 »
I will try to get Korrie Broos to come on and explain...but I can assure you you can lob a
size 22 midge pattern, as I have said I have done it & caught fish.

The technique is to place your thumb along the top of the handle & imagine there is a small 1" ring
on top of you rod "where a hook holder would go but on the opposite side" & you have to put your
thumb through the hole. Very much a wrist action & using the drag on the fly as it goes behind you
to add tension, bit like forming a "D" with a double hander.

Hope that sounds less complicated to you guys than it does to me reading it back.


Alex

Hi
When Alex fished with me in the Cape, I showed/taught/explained some techniques and casts to him.
The majority was shown to me by friends I have in the Czech, Italian and French fly fishing teams over the years. Some were "secrets" a couple of years ago.
I think the short cast that Alex is refering to is where we fish only the leaders up to 18 foot in the Cape, due to the loads of pocket water and small riffle and runs we have in the Cape. You need to alter the casting strokes and fast rods are not the easiest to fish with in this style. If you are use to casting a fly line to load the rod, it is not easy, to get the fly out and to land where you want it to land. When nymphing, you use a techinque very similar to a roll cast. To get some load on the rod and to get the fly to land where you want to. With dry fly, you need to alter your casting stroke completely.
The sketch of a Czech French nymph leader, (40 feet in total) Posted by Alex, was developed by a Cz angler. This is to cast to very spooky fish in clear slow water. It works very well with a team of nymphs or dry fly. Again, it is a different casting stroke, and much slower. You can cast direct to the fish, without fly lines landing on the water etc. The Traditional French leader is used, with a special/different cast, and using the fly line, approaching the fish from diagonally behind,  where you would cast a VERY BIG upstream mend into the leader/tippet section. The fly will approach the fish, with no tippet over the fish. giving you a very long down stream drag free drift.
The Czech fly fishers have developed a cast that replaces the bow and arrow cast. for using it up to double the rod lenght away from you. I call it the "Fly swat" cast. It is used with weighted nymphs only, NOT DRY FLY. you hold the rod horizontal to the water, or at a slight incline. the leader is held parralel to the rod, WITH NO TENSION ON THE ROD!!!!!!. The fly rod is used as you would use a fly swatter, swatting a fly on a table. as your fly swat will strike the table, the same action is used on the fly rod, you let go of the weighted nymph. The weighted nymph, moves in a STRAIGHT LINE, along the fly rod, and lands in the water. Done correctly, the accurancy is fantastic, this requires a bit of practice, but a very useful cast, if you fish in tight areas/spots.
I hope I have answered all the questions that might have arisen out of Alex's post. Regards. Korrie

 




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