[Korrie Broos]

When you speak to rod builders they are all pretty much certain on one thing, modern rods do have a spine.
When you start to discuss where the spine should be, then you do start to get a split in the group.
But the general feeling is "either place the guides on the spine or 180 off the spine"

Now, I have been reading a bit about the spine and the effect of the spine etc.
A lot of rod builders mentions that the action is different on the spine and 180 off the spine.
But there is a general feeling, that the action do differ slightly.

Some mentions, that when you fight the fish of a life time, you want to have it on the spine of the rod.
That is the strongest part.

A friend built a rod and somehow managed to get the guides 90 degrees off. Dont know how, but it happened.
When casting the rod, we both agreed, that we actually like the feel of the rod.
A tad slower, was the general feeling, but much more relaxed.
 I then started to look into the whole spine issue, and I would appreciate info from the more knowledable people. I think that if you hav a rod, you want the action on the cast, forward and backwards t be the same, which you get when having the guides 90 degreees off. When fighting a fish, I would want it to be flexable, but with the spine and the guides aligned, you have a stiffness, with the rod almost having a little less flex in that plane.
When the rod flexes, and the spine is on the same side as the guides, the carbon fibres are being compressed when bending, when the spine is 180 degrees fo the spine, the carbon fibres are bing stretched.
WHich way would be the best?
Or would it not be better if you have the carbon fibres on the side and the rod can be bent or flexed with a big fish without the carbon fibres either being stretched or compressed. Does this not hel a rod explade when putting to much strain on it?
I know they clever people say the rod will bend slightly to the side of the spine if it is not wrapped on the spine, but looking at the normal fly fishers or casters, the cast is in so many planes and off centre the the spine plays no role in the cast itself, it woulld rather distort the cast, if this is true.
I would appreciate more info on this, because the more I try and work this out, the more I come to the conclusion, that the spine is something that is made to be a big thing, but it is rather a mind over matter. If you dont mind it does not matter.

[Korrie Broos]

Maybe there is a materials engineer on the forum, that could enlighten us on the effects of carbon fibre spine, which is stretched, as per the guides 180 degrees of the spine or the spine and guides on top of each other and being compressed when fighting a fish. Or when the spine is 90 degrees of guides, and a serious bend in the rod.
this might be interesting for the fly fishers who target big fish on light tackle and apply maximum pressure on the tackle.

[Sandy Nelson]

Hi korrie

we covered this not so long ago here http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2590.0
and I think many of the questions you ask are here too.
I have spent most of my life fishing light for decent sized fish
and my theories are from these experiences.
I have probably caught well over 20 double figure rainbows with 3 wt outfits
on rods I built myself. So I believe in the Preferred Plane of Bending and it's effectiveness

cheers

sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

Like Sandy I have spent well over 30 years building rods and fishing for big fish on light gear. By placing guides at 90 degrees to the spine you are putting great twisting forces on the blank during casting and playing fish. The classic signs of a badly made rod is one where the sections continually losen off, due to one section being rung incorrectly and wanting to twist back into it's preferred plan or indeed the blank breaking in the middle of a section. It won't be a clean break, more a section that looks like it has "unraveled", looking like it has been crushed.
Many companies added an external weave to the blank to stop this happening, but that is impractical for a trout rod as it adds to the overal weight. It is very much in use for carp and pike blanks as the twisting force with stand off rings and big weight/baits on the cast can destroy a rod very quickly.
I hope that has helped a little along with sandys observations.

[Sandy Nelson]

Like Sandy I have spent well over 30 years building rods and fishing for big fish on light gear. By placing guides at 90 degrees to the spine you are putting great twisting forces on the blank during casting and playing fish.

Be careful with the terminology Rob, you are in danger of contradicting yourself,

I've added a new post to the Terminology section in Flytying to try and help sort out the confusion.

http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=854.0

I hope you agree with what i have said , if not let me know and we can discuss

Cheers

Sandy

[Rob Brownfield]

Hi Sandy,
I was trying to use the terminology of the original post...the spine being referred to is what you and I refer to as the PPB. I see what you mean though and perhaps I should have made myself clear.

As to the question raised in the original post about a fly rod never really being on the same axis on a cast, with a 4 piece rod (which now seems to be the norm), the stress is no where near as great as on a longer sectioned 2 piece rod.

Some manufactures build the rod to look straight, this means some sections may well be whipped off spine. I am sure this is why you can pick up two identical rods and they will feel different.

In the "old days" it was a case of looking at each sections and adding rings to the ourside of the "natural curve" so when the rod was held horizontal, the rings would curve the blank the opposite way, and thuis the rod looked straighter.