Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Dave Olley

Re: The importance of Rod Spines
« Reply #25 on: 07/08/2010 at 15:03 »
It should be noted that not everyone agrees with the importance of spine.
It surprises me that so many people say finding it is of utmost importance but can't agree on where to put the guides in relation to it. Some say on it, some say 180' to it and others say at 90' to it. Can they all be correct?
Many people, including many major rod manufacturers say it doesn't make any difference, This is what Dr Steve Harrison of Harrison blanks says about it

"Spines.

Ok, back to spines, excuse the pun.......... First, what is the spine?

Rod blanks are made by rolling a pattern around a mandrel. Like a swiss roll, there is a start and an end to the "roll" and they can produce a hard and soft side to the blank. That is, if you roll the blank whist slightly bent, there can be a feeling of almost a bump in stiffness in one part of the blank. If you hold the tip in one hand and twist with the other, whilst keeping the rod bent, you are most likely to feel this. Holding the rod tip against a wall or floor whilst rolling the rod will do the same. Often the spine coincides with a slight bend in the blank, as ths spine tends to pull a slight curve during the cure. Many builders would say find the stiffest side of the blank, mark it and put the rings in relation to it. But they dont agree where! Some say at 180 degrees to the spine, some say at 90. One going for the stiffest plane, one for the preffered plane of bending. There are arguments for both. I have listened to all the arguments, spent more time thinking about them than most, and I feel I have as good knowledge of the subject as anyone, but I cannot offer you a simple answer. But I do say the following, and this I know is right. Instead of twisting the flexed rod bent over a hand or some other artificial fulcrum, you hold the rod at the handle end, with a weight hanging from the other. That is you load the rod at the tip and hold it at the butt like you do when fishing. Now roll the rod through 360 degrees, and voila, the sensation of the spine has disappeared. Yes, if you do this in a special jig you will detect a tiny variation in the apparent test curve due to a spine, but it is so small you will not detect it in real life. The spine as many rod builders detect it is an artefact of an artificial test. But like a lot of rodbuilding questions, there are no strightforward answers, so talk to someone else about the spine. However, if you want my advice, for what it is worth! Put the blank together and rotate and adjust the sections until the rod is as straight as possible, any natural curve in the rod bending upwards, then place the rings on the underside."

Rod manufacturers such as Sage and Winston follow the above advice. I find it hard to believe that these manufacturers don't know about spine and given the work that goes into making the rods can it be that they just cant be bothered to spend 30 seconds checking for the spine. No, I am sure they think that it doesn't matter.
Lastly Tom Kirkman, top American custom rod builder, writer of many books on the subject and owner / editor of rod builder magazine has also stated that spine makes no real difference and that you should build on the straightest axis.
Tin hat donned :z2
Over to you

Mike Barrio

Re: The importance of Rod Spines
« Reply #26 on: 08/08/2010 at 00:22 »
Hi Dave :z16

A tin hat is a good start, but you may like to try a flack jacket :z4  :z4  :z4

It is good that we have so many different ideas on this sort of topic, it keeps the hobby interesting.

Best wishes
Mike

Rob Brownfield

Re: The importance of Rod Spines
« Reply #27 on: 09/08/2010 at 08:34 »
Rod manufacturers such as Sage and Winston follow the above advice. I find it hard to believe that these manufacturers don't know about spine and given the work that goes into making the rods can it be that they just cant be bothered to spend 30 seconds checking for the spine. No, I am sure they think that it doesn't matter.
Lastly Tom Kirkman, top American custom rod builder, writer of many books on the subject and owner / editor of rod builder magazine has also stated that spine makes no real difference and that you should build on the straightest axis.

I mentioned the above in one of my posts. When a customer picks up a rod, what is one of the first things they do? They look along the rod to see if its straight. As Joe Public, if I am spending £400+ on a rod, I want a straight one :)

If you spend a little time on the US custom forums you will see that many builders build the rod on the straightest plaine for the same reason.

However, this brings the question of the rod sections twisting against each other if the spline/spines are not aligned. Sometimes you hear of anglers who have rods that for some reason, the tips seem to work loose. Many builders put this down to the blank having been built for straightness, not spine.

David Norwich

Re: The importance of Rod Spines
« Reply #28 on: 09/08/2010 at 14:06 »
okay I'm convinced of the benefits of finding the spline and will take Davids word for it that the spline goes on the same side as the rings.  However I have a question about finding the spline.  I put the thick end of the section on a hard surface, the thin end on my open palm and then with the other hand roll it until I can find the spline.  However I typically feel a resistance to turning and then a jump as it turns.  Do I mark it where I find the resistance or the jump if you see what I'm saying?

Thanks

Matt

Sorry for the late reply to your post Matt, I didn't mark this thread for a follow up.

The preferred planes of bending are not an artificial artifact of a test procedure as Steve Harrison states. The guides themselves take the place of the hand or artificial test in actual use.

I never actually refer to where the guides should be placed as the "spine." I always refer to it as the preferred plane of bending. In your example that is the plane it automatically turns to, the jump side,  when you bend the blank. The guides should be placed on the outside of that bend. That is the side away from the hand that you are using to bend it.

Using your body as an example, you can bend forward easier than you can bend from side to side, or bend backwards. If your body is the blank, the preferred plane of bending is when you bend forwards. The rings should then go down your back. As I have said previously, If you line up all the preferred planes of bending in each section - particularly beneficial and important on a multi-section fly rod, the rod will track true on the forward and back casts. If you make a clean overhead cast with the rod built this way, It can't do other than track true, you have made the blank totally passive in the way it bends. None of the sections have a bending conflict with the section adjacent to it.


Regards,

David.

 




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