[Mike Barrio]

Hi folks

Forgetting clear intermediates for the moment, as by their very nature they require a mono core and this inevitably leads to memory in the line

What sort of colour do you think is good for an intermediate fly line, what gives you confidence? A fairly visible floating line gives you the advantage of being able to see gentle takes via movement at the tip of your line, but is this important with an intermediate when the tip will be under the surface?

So, is something like an olive or tan that we can convince ourselves will blend in with the weed and mud good, or would you prefer a more visible colour, like blue or peach, or whatever?

Best wishes
Mike

[Ben Dixon]

Hi mike,

Don't think it matters much as long as it is subtle.  Best intermediate I ever used is a Cortland 333 clear camo, no memory at all, sinks at a nice pace and has lasted a long time, not so sure that clear or mono core automatically means memory.  Some are awful, generally those on solid core I could (but won't) name quite a few, think the Cortland has a braided mono core.  You are welcome to borrow it for a while if you like.

Cheers

Ben

[Rob Brownfield]

Ok Ben, I will name them..Airflo..lol

BUT..I have a "coldwater" intermediate from Airflo that is a fantastic line with no memory at all...so they can do it

As for colours...if you believed what many of the tackle companies are saying now, then the only colour for a subsurface line is red 

I like a line that could be mistaken for something "natural" so a green or brown as fish are used to seeing these colours all the time in the form of weed strands, sticks, reeds etc.

However, since a fish will often see a line in silhouette, does it really matter?

One last thing, a clear line will often act like a fibre optic cable and carry the light down the line and produce a distinctive pin prick of light at the very end of the flyline.

Oh..sorry..and another thing, I have a "glow in the dark" intermediate that does exactly that...and I have not notices a drop in takes even though in dirty water it stands out a mile!.

[Ben Dixon]

As for colours...if you believed what many of the tackle companies are saying now, then the only colour for a subsurface line is red 

Not seen many red sinkers or intermediates

However, since a fish will often see a line in silhouette, does it really matter?

I would think that the fish would see the line as the line when subsurface rather than the silhouette, silhouette when floating on the surface maybe.

One last thing, a clear line will often act like a fibre optic cable and carry the light down the line and produce a distinctive pin prick of light at the very end of the flyline.

How Rob, this has to be one of your best quotes ever   

I am willing to stop laughing if you can produce some evidence for this 

Oh..sorry..and another thing, I have a "glow in the dark" intermediate that does exactly that...and I have not notices a drop in takes even though in dirty water it stands out a mile!.

Which one is this?  I have only seen the Rio Lumiline, this needs to be charged up with a torch to make it glow, is there a line that glows without any tinkering?  I could use one of those.

Cheers

Ben

[Sandy Nelson]

How Rob, this has to be one of your best quotes ever   

I am willing to stop laughing if you can produce some evidence for this 

Me too  Methinks you may need to look into HOW a fibreoptic cable transmits light. Unless of course you are casting the full line and shining a torch directly into the core at the end of the line, but than what do you do with the backing
 

Pure brilliance, we love you Rob you just made my week.


Personally the best intermediate i've fished with is the Tropical II i have with me, its a kind of pale greeny blue with a  clear tip. I think for fresh water i would like a nice pale olive intermediate

Sandy

[Barry Robertson]

Ok Ben, I will name them..Airflo..lol

BUT..I have a "coldwater" intermediate from Airflo that is a fantastic line with no memory at all...so they can do it

As for colours...if you believed what many of the tackle companies are saying now, then the only colour for a subsurface line is red 

I like a line that could be mistaken for something "natural" so a green or brown as fish are used to seeing these colours all the time in the form of weed strands, sticks, reeds etc.

However, since a fish will often see a line in silhouette, does it really matter?

One last thing, a clear line will often act like a fibre optic cable and carry the light down the line and produce a distinctive pin prick of light at the very end of the flyline.

Oh..sorry..and another thing, I have a "glow in the dark" intermediate that does exactly that...and I have not notices a drop in takes even though in dirty water it stands out a mile!.

Airflo eh!
Well i have fished Airflo interemediates and sinkers for the last god knows hom many seasons and i cant fault the sixth sense range at all 
But the best intermediate i use has to be the cortland blue as it has a great sink rate and a nice colour!
I think line colours are irrelevant as my DI3 sweep is fluro green and i have had plenty fish on this line in the clearest of water with as short as 3ft leaders!
I think its all a confidence thing 

[Robert MacDonald-Lewis]

I have used dark blue, light blue and clear intermediate lines and have not noticed any difference in catch rates.  I don’t think a sunken line could look like anything a fish would expect to see in the water and doubt if colour would be any help of hindrance in disguising the line.

[Iain Goolager]

One of the joys of fishing is not knowing exactly what fish think and how they perceive various 'things' but we strive to discuss valuable issues to improve our understanding and ultimately our catch rates...long may that continue but I've used everything from light blue to olive to clear to etc, etc, & I haven't noticed any discenable difference.

I will say that I hate clear lines as I like to see the end of the line as is arrives at the surface & my best ever intermediate line was a Slow Glass - consistent sink rate from 1st to last cast and a lovely colour & I mean LOVELY - what were they? some kind of translucent green?, the only downside was the oh so familiar Airflo properties of the day & the fact that on bright days the suns rays were refracted through my triangle shaped reel and appeared as a rainbow at the end of the line?? cue joke

any help?
Iain

[Hamish Young]

Iain - nice one 

I think the whole 'fibre optic thing' is a bit of a hoot..... but I will come to Robs defence over intermediate/sinker colour in that whilst in Grahams (tackle shop in Inverness) the other day I was 'casting' an eye over fly lines in the clearance bin and amongst them were indeed red or reddish/brown sinkers and intermediates.
I think they were Shakespeare (Glider maybe ) but didn't pay enough attention to them as it wasn't what I was looking for - I'm guessing the fact that we're not all using red intermediates or sinkers is a fair indication of how successful that colour choice was 

I personally don't worry too much about colour choice when it comes to fly lines, but somehow a light olive or brown would probably inspire confidence. Be my choice next to clear, which I like - despite the old disco lights thing at the end of the line 

H 

[Rob Brownfield]

Ok. I was typing quickly and perhaps did not explain things too well 

Red...there is a "movement" amoung tackle manufacturers to produce red braid and monofiliment (Red Ice, Maxima Red, Red Fireline etc etc) on the bases that it becomes "invisible" under water as red is the first colour to be filtered out by water. Anyone who has been diving will know that "red" becomes grey...it does not "dissapear".

Silhouette...If a line is say a foot under the water, and the fish is 2 foot, it is look up..so things will be silhouetted. If the line and fish are both 3 feet down, due to refraction, the light entering the water will still silhouette the line to some degree. If the line is lower than the fish and it is looking down on it, then it will see the line/shadow. As by very definition the line is an intermediate, then 9 times out of ten the fish will be looking up.

Fibre Optic.... As light hits a thick clear mono cored line it can act as a prism, splitting the light into its colour spectrum. It can also transmit UV/light and cause a pin prick of light on the very end of the line. This can be demonstrated very easily in bright sunshine. This is the exact reason why things like toothbrushes, bristles, etc are given a white pigment to make them more resistent to UV damage by reducing the level of light transmission. There is plenty of information on this if you go to google...you can take the mick if you wish, but I am glad I amused some of you and perhaps made others think. ps. Flurocarbon is even more responsive to light transmission.

Glowing line...its an Airflo Striper saltwater line. It needs charging, but if used in day light it charges from the sun. In dark, peaty water it glows more the deeper it goes.

[Rob Brownfield]

"but always keeps it above the connection between the wind-on and trace leader to avoid the fiber-optic light transmission inherent in monofilament nylon and fluorocarbon line and leader. The light can actually make the leader glow if it rests against the mono. (Palmer has logged numerous night dives on the swordfish grounds checking every aspect of his tackle, bait and rigging and only uses red leader material!)"

"from an intuitive logic standpoint, why color something that should be invisible in the first place? Well, there's one reason I didn't consider... Your line acts as a transmission cable for light. In strong sunlight the line will conduct that energy and become visible. Hi Seas got around that issue by adding some tint to diffuse the light."

"Four scientifically selected colors are alternated along the fluorocarbon reducing light transmission and creating a whole new level of invisibility."

[Sandy Nelson]

Rob

Quotes should have a source otherwise they are not quotes.

Do you think if you fit a multi faceted sequin at the front of the fly, like a turbo disc.
Then would it make the fly sparkle with the projected beam of light from the end of the line.
or could you use a Light absorbing black head to remove the problem. ???

Poachers have used lights to attract fish for years, so maybe monocored lines are tantamount to poaching

If you fold the tip backwards and whip it to form a loop then it should bend the light back and shine it at the angler so you can see the tip, might be a great strike detector on floating lines.

But Mike doesn't want a Mono core anyway, so i guess we should look at he properties of braid, a bundle of cables wound together, much like modern fibre optic communication cables, If it is clear then does it produce lots of little pricks of light, if so in murky water you could use a very short leader and illuminate the fly so the fish can see it better
  I think this idea has serious untapped potential

I use red braid for spinning, i bought it beacuse it matches my rod nicely and looks cool


Sandy

[Mike Barrio]

Hi folks

I get the impression that a clear intermediate line might possibly boost one's confidence, but a coloured line may be easier to see and control for casting etc?

Best wishes
Mike

[Matt Henderson]

Coloured is definitely better than clear in my book. With a fast sinking line you can't see more than a few inches of line in the water. With a slow sink you can see most of it therefore coloured is good. Also good for casting. But there is no logic. Rio fask sinking head dark green. Guideline fast sink light blue!

[Barry Robertson]

Coloured lines i think are only better as its easier to see nips and pulls , as for the clear line being a pain as you always pull it in throught the rings - just whip on some hot orange thread as marker rings at say -5fr- 10ft - 15ft.
A great way at choosing the hang depth for your flies on deeper water 

[Irvine Ross]

If I am single handed Spey casting it definitely helps me to see where my anchor is so a coloured line is better than clear in that aspect. The pale green Rio Sink 1 shooting head shows up OK but I noticed yesterday that the dark brown sinking poly leader disappeared as soon as it hit the water. I would guess a light olive green wouldn't scare the fish too much but still let the angler see what is going on.

Irvine