[Magnus Angus]

Possibly the biggest surprise of the Outcast weekend came when I tried a GRXi - I'd been watching the owner casting and had a few suggestions. I like to try an outfit before putting my foot in it - big surprise. My first cast was a pile of mince! Far far worse than the rod owner had been achieving. Now, knowing the Haddo campaign for light lines and thinking back to Sandy's enjoyment of underlined rods.....I first suspected a deliberate underlining...but no! It had been Hamished.

The #6/7 rod did indeed have a matching WF line on it - just the wrong way around.

A really simple suggestion - check your lines. Make sure the front bit (a few yards back from the tip) is either thicker than the back bit (WF) or the two are the same thickness (DT). Mistakes happen and I for one forget what line is where so have dropped some real clangers - reviewed a single handed rod with a light spey line - couldn't understand why the rod couldn't chuck the lot, I seemed to struggle to hold up the whole head and the rod seemed overloaded.

Other points - if you want to shoot more line a heavier line makes it easier. If you want to roll cast more easily a heavier line makes it easier. If you want to bang a line into the wind a heavier line makes it easier.

The vast majority of rods are now rated for lower line weights than they were a few years ago. That's fine if you can carry a long line and maintain sufficient line speed and tension. It's crap is you want to carry less and still deliver a fly at any range. Uplining a rod by one or even two line weights will not damage the rod you are simply changing the rating.

If you really go for it and want to try making shooting heads - the weight of the head will be just slightly less than the weight of the line you can comfortably carry with a full line. Most of us were casting 60 to 70+ feet of line at the weekend (probably restricted by windy conditions) to optimize a 30ft shooting head you would aim to be slightly under the weight of line in that section of line - around 1.3 to 1.5 times the weight at the given AFTMA (AFFTA) weight - which is two to three line weights heavier than the rating however you are working, bending, the rod against no more weight than when you use a full line.

[Sandy Nelson]

Perhaps "Hamish" is gaelic for Ham fist

[Rob Brownfield]

If you really go for it and want to try making shooting heads - the weight of the head will be just slightly less than the weight of the line you can comfortably carry with a full line. Most of us were casting 60 to 70+ feet of line at the weekend (probably restricted by windy conditions) to optimize a 30ft shooting head you would aim to be slightly under the weight of line in that section of line - around 1.3 to 1.5 times the weight at the given AFTMA (AFFTA) weight - which is two to three line weights heavier than the rating however you are working, bending, the rod against no more weight than when you use a full line.

Building on Magnus' advice....

 ...when buying PRE MADE shooting heads, some manufacturers such as Rio, Airflo and a few others manufacture the head to the correct weight, so for example, my 10 weight Pike rod takes a Rio 10 weight shooting head but a 12 weight cortland that I made from a DT line. I know a few folk that have been caught out by that one.

Also, you can go a bit mad and go up say 4 line sizes but reduce the length of head to say 20 feet. This is useful if you fish waters with a restricted back cast. Not pretty to cast, but it can be useful in extreme situations (like when fishing off of the rocks for sea fish and you have a cliff behind you. This works well for level lead core if you want to go deep and far.

Alternatively, get a Rio Outbound or an Airflo 40+ line and there you have a shooting head bonded to a running line with a nice smooth joint with no noise in the rings and greately reduced hinging if you get a wee bit too much running line out the tip.

ps. What every happened to level taper fly lines? I remember them..just.

[Cameron deBoth]

I wondered how long that would take.... hehe 

[Magnus Angus]

...when buying PRE MADE shooting heads, some manufacturers such as Rio, Airflo and a few others manufacture the head to the correct weight, so for example, my 10 weight Pike rod takes a Rio 10 weight shooting head but a 12 weight cortland that I made from a DT line. I know a few folk that have been caught out by that one.

Hmmm...some months ago I reviewed a couple of Rio Heads - at the time I asked Simon Gawesworth for his recommendation for a 10ft #7 rod - he advised one or two weights higher. If you check the listed weights for RioMax heads they are very close to the AFFTA norms - they are not two weights heavy. So to match one of those to a rod means going one or two weights up!.

http://www.affta.com/photos/pdf/da1ef559dd6854fafc3eb9e68c83db0.pdf
http://www.rioproducts.com/product.php?recKey=28

Despite being called Shooting Tapers Rio Outbounds are technically WF lines and Rio list them as such - the heads are 37.5ft long - the declared head-weights mean their 30ft weight is about one line-class heavy.
Rio Outbound Short are also WF lines - the heads are 30ft 2" - the declared head-weights mean they are two and a bit line-classes heavy.

Airflo don't publish head-weights and 30ft weights as far as I know.

Much as I like the guys at Rio its remarkably stupid to list a WF line as a #7 when its over the limit for a #9. Airflo are just bloody minded and awkward
Lines should be listed by their 30ft weight and coded to say if they are WF ST DT etc.

[Ben Dixon]

I dont think that the AFTMA system lends itself at all to the classification of shooting head lines, using the outbound short as an example, the head weight for a #5 is quoted as being 200 grains, a #5 MED has a 68.3ft head and weighs 268 grains.  The outbound short #5 is designed to work with a rod that most manufacturers and casters would choose to cast a standardish WF5 line on, I am sure that I would not want a 30ft 5wt shooting head that weighed in at about 140 grains i.e, it conformed to AFTMA standards, I am fairly certain that this would simply end up with many disappointed punters buying heads that were too light for their rods, things are baffling enough for Joe average as it is!!  But Magnus & I have been here before I think 

As far as choosing to line up or down, I usually prefer the lighter of the two ratings on a rod (there are exceptions) but I am used to casting light line rods, to me a #7 line feels quite heavy even so, I usually do tend to cast the head of the line not the running line 


Cheers

Ben

[Iain Goolager]

Magnus,
I have been looking for an Airfo line similar to the one that I tried on Sunday. You said it was a 5wt. On scanning the net I've found what I think are the lines (Ridge Delta Taper WF Floater 'watery olive') but they classify them as 3/4, 4/5, 5/6 etc. Which one did you have?

Cheers
 Iain


Jim,

Have you found this too?

[Jim Eddie]

Iain

Aye that was the one I though it was due to the colour.

 

Jim

[Magnus Angus]

I'm honestly not sure what line that is - I think it's and Airflo Ridge Tactical Trout - in fetching Litchen green - I know its a WF and was assured its a #5.

http://www.fishtec.co.uk/ProductDetailInfoWithOptions.cfm?ID=RS-SL-&ShopRef=23&Prime=Yes&shopListRec=36621

I'll check with the guy I got it from and post,

[Rob Brownfield]

Magnus,
I only use Rio heads...thats all i have ever used....(except a leadcore Cortland) and the heads i bought from Paul (GRHE) and from down south are marked 10 weight. They load a 10 rod perfect and a 9 weight with care. I was advised that Rio rate the heads correctly...ie. a 10 is a 10.

Yet again that "standardised" AFTMA scale adds confusion!

[Magnus Angus]

Yet again that "standardised" AFTMA scale adds confusion!

Rob - the scale isn't confusing, its pretty clearly defined - the way people use the scale leads to confusion.

Incidentally the scale only applies to lines not rods. Rods are rated to fit with a line either according to test casters or according to a set of agreed deflections or a combination of both. Anyway, most of the time issues are with rod ratings not lines.

[Mike Barrio]

Rob - the scale isn't confusing, its pretty clearly defined - the way people use the scale leads to confusion.

Yep ........ I like the scale, it certainly works for me

Cheers
Mike

[Hamish Young]

I find it hard to believe that putting a fly line on the wrong way round is something I'm capable of - even when hung-over, and that's not often.... 
A mistake could have been made if the line came with the sticker on the wrong end  And that has happened before.......
In which case I probably wouldn't have checked as I tend to rely on the manufacturers knowing their product- therefore 'my bad'   If guilty, that is 

I'm guessing which rod it was and who it, or more importantly the fly line in question, belonged to - noted 

[Alex Burnett]

A mistake could have been made if the line came with the sticker on the wrong end  And that has happened before.......

2 years ago I recieved a Lee Wulff Triangle Taper Intermediate that was tagged up wrong by the manufacturer, spent 2 hours wondering what the hell was up with my casting

Alex

[Mike Barrio]

It was one of my fly lines ...... so I'll take the blame ...... 

Cheers
Mike

[Sandy Nelson]

A mistake could have been made if the line came with the sticker on the wrong end  And that has happened before.......

I win

Sandy

[Mike Barrio]

Hamish ...... I think we've been had

I remember you loading this line in the hut, then having a cast to make sure it suited the rod, then "young luckyshot whipersnapper thingie" going out in the boat and loving the new line which he was casting great

Hmmm ..... then he turns up at the "outcasts" and struggles to put out a decent line cause the line is on the wrong way round? I smell a wind-up here    

Cheers
Mike

[Cameron deBoth]

I wish I was clever enough the think that up, also I have no idea how to tie the not between the Backing and Line. We also loaded the line at the very end of the day, and I tested a line on one of your reels.

I really dont mind taking the fall on this one tho, Im such an R-tard for not noticing straight away.

[Mike Barrio]

LOL ....... I'm winding you up now Cameron    

Where did you get that "huge" signature by the way ...... we'll have to show you how to use photoshop as well now!

Yes, I forgot that you were using one of my demo lines to fish with on the day .... hmm, OK, it's my fault again, it usually is!

Cheers
Mike

[Cameron deBoth]

LOL ....... I'm winding you up now Cameron    

Where did you get that "huge" signature by the way ...... we'll have to show you how to use photoshop as well now!

Yes, I forgot that you were using one of my demo lines to fish with on the day .... hmm, OK, it's my fault again, it usually is!

Cheers
Mike

haha its all good, my last post was a drunken one!

I made that sig in photoshop. I'll make a more suitable one this weekend if I get as chance lol

see you tomorrow