[Mike Barrio]

Roman Moser has now retired, his Minicon loops are no longer available wholesale, so I guess existing stocks in the shops will start to dry up over the coming months.

That's one of my projects for the winter, I'm playing with braid to see what I can come up with as an alternative to go with my lines.

Have you any thoughts on length, or any other feature that you'd like to see in a braided loop?

[Mike Barrio]

Off to a good start with the basics 

I need a cleaner cut and to go through some tubing samples next.

[Terry Coging]

Can't fault the Minicon loops Mike. If you can make something as good I would certainly recommend them.
Not had a failed Minicom since I started using them about 10 years ago.

[Hamish Young]

Have you any thoughts on length, or any other feature that you'd like to see in a braided loop?

Loved the tubing on the Moser Minicon, only dislike was length of the braid, I prefer the braid to be just that smidgen longer.

[Mike Barrio]

Loved the tubing on the Moser Minicon, only dislike was length of the braid, I prefer the braid to be just that smidgen longer.

Thanks Hamish - just the kind of feedback I'm looking for 

Have a look at one if you've got one please, and let me know what you think the ideal length would be?

Cheers
Mike

[John Wastle]

Your loops look along the right lines Mike.  Constructed the same way as I do.  A bit longer perhaps. ⁸I make mine about 1 1/4" and butt the fly line right up to the loop.

 I don't use tubing on any braided loops. I find whipping neater and more reliable. That said the the thin flexible tubing on minicons is the best I have seen. I also avoid superglue which sets stiff. I prefer Aquasure, or flexible waterproof contact adhesive worked into the braid

There is a lot of variation in stifness of the nylon used in braids. Some of the stiffer ones don't form as neat a loop but are good if attaching a polyleader. The best allround one I have come across is 30lb Cortland which is slim and supple and works on most line sizes. If I need it to be a bit stiffer I work a little Aquasure into it.

[Hamish Young]

Have a look at one if you've got one please, and let me know what you think the ideal length would be?

I do, but they're well hidden at mo - but loosely, twice the length would be about right 

[Mike Barrio]

Yep, a bit longer would be good Hamish, but they did vary considerably. I used to sort my stock orders and discard the shortest ones when I was straightening them.

Yep, I try to get the line right up to the loop too John. What type of flexible waterproof contact adhesive do you use?

[John Wastle]

 Mike I'm using Gorilla Glue contact adhesive.   Bostik leather repair glue is another.

[Mike Barrio]

Mike I'm using Gorilla Glue contact adhesive.   Bostik leather repair glue is another.

I'll have to give them a try on my personal lines John 

[Terry Coging]

As with all tackle, we have our own preferences. I find the RM braid length just right - but I can always cut down a longer one.
I'll make it a topic for our weekly club meetings and with my fly tying club. If you post me a sample I can show it around before trying it.

[Mike Barrio]

I'll send you a sample when I'm happy with them Terry 

Still got more base products (braid/tubing) to arrive and experiment with, so it might be a while yet.

Cheers
Mike

[Ian Bell]

When the braid sleeve hits the top ring it’s possible to push the sleeve off if it’s not glued!
   I find a tiny bit of “LOON - Loon UV Knot Sense” works for me!
Use a magnifying glass and a toothpick to get a smooth transition before using a uv torch.

[Mike Barrio]

Yep, that works Ian 

My experience is that this can happen with the pvc sleeves, but silicone sleeves seem to have a better hold and don't slip on me.

[Mike Barrio]

Thoughts on fraying everybody?

Fraying is very difficult to eliminate on braid, but is it a problem?



If the braided loops are supplied a bit longer, you can slide the sleeve down to the length that suits your personal preference (we have established that some folks like their braided loops short and others would prefer them to be a bit longer) snip off the excess braid behind the sleeve (by fraying the braid up to the sleeve and snipping) and then slide the sleeve a smidgen further to finish it off.

Here's a twin walled braided loop, made as above, snipped to desired length behind a silicone sleeve.
Nothing new - but this is all about keeping things simple and reliable.

[Ivor Duffus]

I just use a nail knot at the end.  Trim the frayed ends back leaving a couple mm. Then use the nail knot tails for a whip finish. couple coats of super glue to finish.

if its on a Salmon line will add another nail knot between the loop and end nail knot. A nail knot compresses the braid into the line so it should never fail.

I use 30lb airflo micro poly backing for the nail knot which is really thin diameter


Ivor

[Mike Barrio]

Yes, a whipped finish (as John mentioned earlier), or a nail knot, work very well as an alternative braid anchor Ivor 

But for the purposes of this particular R&D - I can't put knots/whipping in a retail packet.

[Magnus Angus]

Hi Mike

I liked Minicons as you know. I think they were really designed for lower line-weights. The length was ok by me, never had one fail. I prefer to whip braids on but  for a fast fix tube is fine.

I'm interested in the comment about heavier or stiffer braid as an aid for looping on poly leaders - never considered that point.

I've had issues with simple braid loops, where the tucked leg slipped out. That usually happened while I was attaching the loop but once or twice a loop fell apart when I was fishing. I use a drop of glue, usually superglue, to prevent that.

Magnus

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Magnus

Yes, I've experienced this with some braided loops as well. I'm finding a full length twin wall construction helps to prevent that.

Cheers
Mike

[Fred Hay]

Very neat and I'm impressed that you managed to get the line pushed right up to the loop which is something I find difficult.

Not sure about the pvc or silicon sleeve and usually add a whipping (and a drop of glue) over the 'frayed' end and sometimes half down the braid.

Good effort - I hope you manage to replicate the RM sleeve as they were excellent and ...... the end of double braid did not fray ??

PS: On lines with preformed loops I've started making/using double loop end braid connectors which prevent the cast from cutting the preformed loop and allows you to loop to loop your cast. Saves the main line getting damaged and doesn't seem to cause a hinging issue.  (saw in on a salmon forum and it works well )

[Terry Coging]

Thoughts on fraying everybody?

Fraying is very difficult to eliminate on braid, but is it a problem?



If the braided loops are supplied a bit longer, you can slide the sleeve down to the length that suits your personal preference (we have established that some folks like their braided loops short and others would prefer them to be a bit longer) snip off the excess braid behind the sleeve (by fraying the braid up to the sleeve and snipping) and then slide the sleeve a smidgen further to finish it off.

Here's a twin walled braided loop, made as above, snipped to desired length behind a silicone sleeve.
Nothing new - but this is all about keeping things simple and reliable.

Mike - That's exactly how I fit the RM loops. With my style of fishing the loop is going in and out of the top ring regularly due to me using very long leaders. I don't use any adhesive and never had a RM sleeve push off.
Something worth noting - make sure that the line is absolutely grease free before pushing it into the braid. I once fitted a RM loop to a line that had been in use and when pulling it to tighten up, it slipped off. Then I realised that the line had been cleaned and lubricated prior to fitting. Degreasing solved the problem.
 

[James Laraway]

Interesting. I always position the silicon tubing in the middle of the braid then put a wee but of superglue on both sides for 'extra traction'. This does leave annoying frayed bits at the end thought ( even cutting with fine scissors wont get rid of the 'bits' ). I think i will try having the silicone over the end like shown in the photos 

[Mike Barrio]

Hi James

If you are worried about not adding any glue, you could leave a couple of mm of frayed braid and then apply a tiny amount of glue to the frays before sliding the sleeve over them.

But in my experience, with silicone sleeves, there is no need to apply any glue 

[Mike Barrio]

Not sure about the pvc or silicon sleeve and usually add a whipping (and a drop of glue) over the 'frayed' end and sometimes half down the braid.

Hi Fred

Absolutely, whipping works well, we can always explore improving the basic item to our own satisfaction/preference 

I wouldn't add anything half way along the braid though, as this would cancel out the constriction/grip of the braid behind it.

I've seen the double end loop connectors on salmon lines, I think the basic principle is that a braided loop will cut into a welded loop less than a nylon leader one will.

[John Wastle]

Mike, that loop looks the business to me. Good length and loop size.