[Jim Eddie]

I have ben using these for the past 10 years or so and have never had a failure with one. I know some people don't like them, as presenation may suffer and they  prefer to nail knot/ needle knot a length of nylon direct to the fly line.
Personally I use them for convenience as I'm a lazy angler 

I normally insert the fly line as far as it will go , this can cause slight problems on floating lines as it does tend to make the tip sink , I usually overcome this by ginking up the loop. I know some folk only insert the fly line a couple of inches.

What are your opnions ?

 

Jim   

[Hamish Young]

For trout I go with the nail knot and a 'big butt' tapered leader or furled leader as presentation is generally soooo much better .... for salmon I'm less choosy and go with the braided loops as I invariably fish with polyleaders.

[Iain Goolager]

Jedi,

I've tried it all over the years and I now use Roman Moser Minicons 100% of the time as I too am always looking for the easy option (providing it doesn't affect my fishing).
They are £5.99 for a packet of 5 (Sportfish) but IMHO well worth it.
They are approx 2" long which some may deem a little short as the 'standard' braided loops are much longer allowing the more 'wary' angler to have up to 3" of fly line inserted - which I think is both unneccesary and can act more like a hinged joint instead of a decent transition to leader.
They also have the silicon tubing pre loaded onto the braid just past the loop.
All you do is slip the fly line into the braid as far as it will go - note the braid will not splay/fray as other types of braid do therefore no need to use scissors to cut back the ends until a decent section of braid is found.
Slip the 'Grip Pin', which is supplied, through the looped end and slide the silicon tube over to the end of the braid.
I then drop a tiny amount of 'Fly-Tite' (I find superglue too ridgid) into both ends of the tube and Hey Presto!

Very neat, very easy, as smooth a transition as you can get AND this can be done at the waters edge in seconds.

Or I could always go back to using 'cast connectors' jeepers, remember them? weren't they junk!

Hope this helps

If you would like to try one I could drop one off to you just name the place

Iain

[Dave Gordon]

I agree with the above. I use the Fulling Mill ones, they are a good length and fork very well, they are also available in a veriety of colours.

I always add a wee drop of superglue to them though, both to the loop and to the silicone sleve. I have a good few in stock ( mine are £2.99 for 3 before your discount!) and some demo ones so if any one wants one to try mail me and i will drop one off with Mike.

Dave

[Jim Eddie]

Goolangler
Thanks for your excelent reply.

Dave

I stopped using super glue as I found it to rigid and it used to break  the coating on the fly line, I use "angling glue" now which  is more flexible. I need to come visit your shop sometime as I have heard glowing reports.

I proably should have mentioned what prompted my post, I bought 10 loops from Steve Parton on e-bay , they are nice loops but around 12" long IMHO is to long.

Also does anyone use coloured loops instead of indicators ?

 
Jim 

[Dave Gordon]

Jim you are spot on, it is Fulling Mill glue I use, and is designed for the purpose i guess. Superglue is brittle, and aquasure is heavy and sinks.
I have to admit the I cannot see the coloured loops to well, so have ordered some very bright ones and will keep you posted.

Thanks for the feedback, I am having a good laugh with the anglers and really striving to give our best possible deal, pop in any time for a chat and coffee. But call first and make sure i am there, I have a sharper pencil than the guys and can do a better deal.

D

[Iain Goolager]

Guys,
 If you look at page 3 forums under the 'Indicator leader' topic you can see the Roman Moser Trout Braided Leader on a #4 line.

Iain

[Jim Eddie]

Guys,
 If you look at page 3 forums under the 'Indicator leader' topic you can see the Roman Moser Trout Braided Leader on a #4 line.

Iain

I looked , I think we are both singing from the same Hymn sheet 

 

Jim

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Iain

"Page 3 forums" = Your thread with the photo http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=875.0

Cheers
Mike

[Jim Eddie]

For trout I go with the nail knot and a 'big butt' tapered leader or furled leader as presentation is generally soooo much better .... for salmon I'm less choosy and go with the braided loops as I invariably fish with polyleaders.

Hamish

Do you  feel nail knotting makes a difference for the troot fishing ? ( daft question I know , if you didn't feel it made a difference you would not do it)

Harking back to Mikes 80/20 thing , do you think wee things like this do make the difference ?

Cheers

Jim

[gunner100]

Hi Jim and everyone,

Very interesting thread.

I am a great fan of braided loops but I make them myself so I can make them any length I like. Three inches is my preferred length and have never had one part. I do not use any type of glue as the silicon sleeves seem to be perfectly of holding fish of any weight. IMHO it is the nylon which is more likely to break before the braided loop connection(s).

The only innovation (?) I use is that instead of one silicon sleeve I use two on a three inch braid. One at the reel end  of the braid and one at the connection of the fly line to the braid, above  the loop. This prevents "hingeing" at the connection of the fly line/braided loop/leader

Lyall

[Hamish Young]

Hamish

Do you  feel nail knotting makes a difference for the troot fishing ? ( daft question I know , if you didn't feel it made a difference you would not do it)

Harking back to Mikes 80/20 thing , do you think wee things like this do make the difference ?

Cheers

Jim

Undoubtably Jim, especially when it comes to dry fly fishing - if you fish long leaders with intermediates and sinkers I still think turnover is better for it. I do chop the 9ft 'big butt' tapered leaders up quite a bit to get what I want but I really do find there's a difference and it's worthwhile. For traditional loch fishing I'm less worried about the tapered leaders and more worried about not having a big enough fly 

[Irvine Ross]

Hamish

I have started using the nail knotted tapered leader too and it does make a difference when you are trying to pitch a dry fly upstream against the inevitable downstream breeze.

What I find difficult is getting the nail knot tied. If I use a needle with an eye big enough to take the thick end of the leader, I can't force it through the fly line. I ended up using a thinner needle, making the hole, taking the needle out, putting it back in in reverse and threading the thin end of the leader.

Is there an easier way?

cheers

Irvine

[Hamish Young]

Irvine - as ever I 'bend' the rules a little...... 
I used to needle through as well and that works fine for a straight length of - say - 15lb mono as a leader connector but with the 'big butt' leaders what I do is strip off about 1.5 inches off the end of the flyline to leave the core exposed. I then make my loose nail knot above the stripped section then tighten it down onto the stripped section. I use pliers on the end of the stripped core of the flyline and the 'tag' off the nail knot in order to make sure I get a good gripping knot on the core. Pull bloody tight and bing-presto-hey you have a reasonably neat and tight knot.
Only drawback is you can be left with a 'ring rattling' knot no matter how neat and tidy you are. I'm thinking about using some heat-shrink to cover the knot and ease 'ring progress' but, as one has never given way yet and I haven't lost a fish because of the knot, I haven't got around to it yet 
I don't know if that's easier  - but it works for me 

[Mike Barrio]

If you put the needle through the line, I thought this was the needle knot?

I use what I think is the nail knot? Which is putting a nail or needle alongside the fly line, wrapping round four or five times and then passing back through under the wraps ......... works for me

But I cheat and use the "multitool line clippers" that make it so much easier

Can show anybody how I do it if you are at the loch, works grand and I also use it for backing to fly line connection.

Cheers
Mike

[Hamish Young]

If you put the needle through the line, I thought this was the needle knot?

Yup - it is.... but both use the same final knot - nail knot is a needle knot without passing the leader through the line.

I use what I think is the nail knot? Which is putting a nail or needle alongside the fly line, wrapping round four or five times and then passing back through under the wraps ......... works for me

I used to try using a nail or knitting needle to do the same thing but gave up, just do it 'in hand' these days 

But I cheat and use the "multitool line clippers" that make it so much easier

That's cheating  but if it works.... will have to try one of those fancy tools one day 

[goosander]

Thought i would add my experience of braided loops in case others have had the same problems. A few years ago i was given some to try. While fishing for seatrout in the low water with size fourteens and six lbs. nylon i was getting knocks but no firm offers. On working my flies back i saw several fish go for the loop. Cutting off the loop i went back to my old method, ie a knot at the end of the fly line and a loop at the start of my cast [so much for fishing fine] and things went back to "normal".
Regarding nail knots. I got from a tackle shop a small gadget which you wrap the nylon round five times, slip the fly line into the slot and tighten carefully. It takes less time than it took me to type this paragraph.
May i also add how much i enjoy your site and the way you all help each other.

[goosander]

helo

[Mike Barrio]

Hi Goosander

Funny you should mention that, I have often seen this at the fishery, very often in fact ......... and anglers will complain of "getting nips" that they can't hook

Great to have you on the forum too

Best wishes
Mike

[goosander]

Thank you. Have often noticed that say a rise to say a small black fly hatching on the water and trout will rise to the knot on the fly line, why

[Mike Barrio]

Your guess is good as mine ........ I sometimes wish we could ask them

Possibly simply the disturbance on the water?

Best wishes
Mike

[Irvine Ross]

Hamish

Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.

Sorry I should have said needle knot to avoid confusion but I have always thought of it as a version of the nail knot.

I have always been nervous of using the nail knot without threading the leader through the line core. If you just tie it around the outside of the fly line you are only attached to the outer plastic covering. There is a chance it could sheer off and the leader would go with it.

Am I being too cautious

Irvine

[Hamish Young]

If you just tie it around the outside of the fly line you are only attached to the outer plastic covering. There is a chance it could sheer off and the leader would go with it.

If you're worried you can also throw in a couple of hitches or do a "mirror" two turn nail knot with the line core onto the leader before you pull things tight...if you use 'my' method.
That way it's very secure and you certainly shouldn't have any "sheering off" issues at all - only 'spy' is it becomes bulky 

[Sandy Nelson]

For floaters 6wt and above and all my sinking lines i use Moser minicons, brilliant little beasties
And at about an inch long they dont affect the characteristics of the line.
On lighter lines they do affect the balance so use a needle knot like Hamish, although
instead of a needle or nail try using a short section of tube, ie the centre of a cotton bud or the like
it makes life much easier

Sandy