Fishing The Fly Scotland Forum

Dave Mundie

Salmon Rod
« on: 30/11/2010 at 18:00 »
Hi looking for some info here,
I've got a Shakespeare Odyssey 9' #7/8 fly rod and I was wondering if it would be ok for a single handed salmon rod for the Ythan (Haddo House Beat)?
If not any suggestions as what would be good but not too expensive (wife looking for ideas for xmas).
Also need a reel.

Don't know much about all the different lines as never used the fly for salmon before, but as it's only a small river I guess a floater and some sort of sinker would do?

Dave

Jim Eddie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #1 on: 30/11/2010 at 19:03 »
Dave

That rod is going to be fine for the Ythan.

 :z18

Jim

Dave Mundie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #2 on: 30/11/2010 at 19:38 »
 :z18 Jim any recommendations for a real would this do http://www.wychwood-game.co.uk/reels.html
And what about lines?

Dave

Jim Eddie


Hamish Young

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #4 on: 30/11/2010 at 21:48 »
My personal preference is for a floating shooting head and a selection of polyleaders or tips over a full line  :z16
The Ythan isn't a big river and IMHO you want the rod to load quickly and efficiently, and that's more easily done with a shooting head. Now you can do that with the full length fly line but the advantage of a shooting head is that you can 'tweak it' to suit you much more than an off the shelf flyline might do.

I'm prepared to take some flak for that comment, but I consider the shooting head as the single best investment I've made in single handed salmon fishing in the last two seasons  :cool:

The upside of shooting heads is they make for a very versatile outfit. The downside is..... errrr...... not a lot really.
You really do need to make an investment in a good quality shooting/running line off the back of the shooting head itself but that need not break the bank.

The Wychwood reels are not bad quality, the Shakespeare Pfleuger Trion would also be worth a look  :z17

:z3

Ben Dixon

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #5 on: 30/11/2010 at 22:34 »
Hi Dave,

Rod will be fine.  As Hamish said, the line is the most important part of the outfit and you need something that is short.  (Shit, I must be ill, just agreed with Hamish) 

A. It makes dealing with tips & bigger flies easy.

B  On a small river you are often making very short casts and the rod needs to load well at short range and if you are chucking big stuff and tips then you will need sufficient mass of line outside of the tip to carry / turn over sink tip & fly.

C.  You will get good results from fishing a stripped or worked fly on a small river particularly on slower "worming" pools, this is a pig to do with anything other than a short head.  (You must understand though, I don't strip flies, being a purist and all that  :z4)


If you are happy to do so and have the patience then make a shooting head and fit it to either Rio Powerflex 0.030" running line (this is coated and easy to handle) or Varivas 36lb (This is hollow mono, not so nice to handle but casts very well)

Easiest option would be to get a Rio iLine in 15.5 gram spec.


Cheers

Ben

Dave Mundie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #6 on: 01/12/2010 at 18:40 »
 :z18 guys

So I'll just have to ask the wife to get me a reel for xmas them.

I'm lost with all the shooting heads and stuff, just about managing to get my head round floating, intermediate, and sinking for the stillwater's.

Will have to try get the line sussed before the 11th Feb though.

Dave

Ben Dixon

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #7 on: 01/12/2010 at 22:13 »
Dave,

Get the iLine, heads are a good choice but they will take some playing with to get right.  The iLine casts a bit like a shooting head but you simply spool it up and go fishing buy the 15.5 gram line for your rod. 

Cheers

Ben

Dave Mundie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #8 on: 02/12/2010 at 19:09 »
iLine now I'm totally lost ???

Dave

Ben Dixon

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #9 on: 02/12/2010 at 19:15 »
Dave,

It's a new line from Rio launched this year with a head length between 28' & 30' a bit like a Triangle Taper in profile but with a thicker tip and shorter rear taper.  It was designed as a teaching line for instructors (what the i stands for) so it excels from about 20' to about 75', it is sized by grams not AFTMA number.  An 11g is about right for a rod rated #5, 13g is for a #6 rod and the 15.5g is for #7 rods.  Your #7/8 Shakespeare is not a very stiff rod, the 15.5g line should work it fine.

Cheers

Ben

Dave Mundie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #10 on: 02/12/2010 at 19:29 »
Dave,

It's a new line from Rio launched this year with a head length between 28' & 30' a bit like a Triangle Taper in profile but with a thicker tip and shorter rear taper.  It was designed as a teaching line for instructors (what the i stands for) so it excels from about 20' to about 75', it is sized by grams not AFTMA number.  An 11g is about right for a rod rated #5, 13g is for a #6 rod and the 15.5g is for #7 rods.  Your #7/8 Shakespeare is not a very stiff rod, the 15.5g line should work it fine.

Cheers

Ben

Ah ok I see, so do they come in floating, intermediate and sinking?

Not Fly fished for salmon before so not really got a clue what I'm after or doing, I see how casting out and letting it swing round on a large river works but can't picture how that works on a small narrow river like the Ythan.

Dave

Ben Dixon

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #11 on: 02/12/2010 at 20:02 »
Hi Dave,

Floating only, use it with the Rio 7' versileaders.  These are polyleaders (add on sink tips) and should get you deep enough for most circumstances, if not then make a sinking shooting head yourself I'll give you a recipie for it but go get familiar wth how the an iLine with polyleader and salmon sized fly casts first on your rod.  As far as flies go, I would not go any heavier than a 1" copper tub on a single handed rod unless you are very happy and confident with your casting, something could well get hurt!!

I don't know the Ythan at all so can only speak from experience on other small salmon rivers, but think more like trout fishing in terms of how you put your fly out across the stream, you will need to conceal yourself and think more about every cast than when fishing a large river rather than casting and swinging blindly.  On a bigger river when swinging you can usually cast at the required angle to give your fly the desired swing speed and watch it come round.  On smaller rivers, particularly if they are over grown (what some may term spinning or worming water) then you may end up trying to dead drift flies straight down stream feeding slack until they have reached a lie and then put the line under tension to swing over the lie as you often cannot get a cast eaxctly where you may want the fly to fish.  I get a lot of my salmon on smaller rivers by stripping Sunrays. 

Get yourself a copy of "Salmon Fishing" by Hugh Falkus, will tell you most of what you need to know.


Cheers

Ben

Dave Mundie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #12 on: 04/12/2010 at 01:13 »
 :z18 Ben will have a look out for the book.

Dave

Hamish Young

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #13 on: 04/12/2010 at 09:30 »
They crop up in charity shops in Aberdeen every now and again.... or ebay
 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Salmon-Fishing-Hugh-Falkus-Hardback-1984-/160514309880?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item255f65fef8
It's a damn good read, bit dated in places (that is to be expected :!) but still one of the 'stand out' reads for the Salmon angler. Also worth a read is Crawford Little's book, some good stuff in there....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Success-Salmon-Crawford-Little-HB-DJ-1988-/400172654610?pt=Non_Fiction&hash=item5d2c262012

:z3

Graham Ritchie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #14 on: 04/12/2010 at 11:36 »
Dave, I fish that beat on the Ythan now and again and you wont really need any fancy lines. The 9ft rod is a little restricting, there is a lot of weeds at the edge of the bank which extend out into the river, but you will manage to fish many of the pools. You will be restricted to overhead casting with that outfit, as you cant wade and the weeds at the rivers edge will catch your loop if you try to speycast with the shorter rod. This again is no real problem, you dont need to cast very far. For that rod I would buy a standard weight forward line, it does not have to be anything special, a mill end will do if you are operating to a budget. Cut the first couple of foot off the front of the line and whip a loop on the tip. This will remove the level piece of line at the tip and a little of the front taper and will make it easier the turn over polyleaders which you loop to the tip. A range of polyleaders or versi-tips will allow you to adjust the depth you are fishing at, also have flies of different weights from doubles to copper tubes which will further enable you to fine tune the depth you are fishing. With this you should be able to fish the beat in a low or medium water, but you will be a bit undergunned in high water, a double hander and sinking line is more suitable for this. For books, the Crawford Little one recommended by Hamish is very good, the Falkus one is quite sound with the advise, if a little dated nowadays. Other ones I would recommend are the books by Alexander Baird Keichy, they are a bit more up to date.

Dave Mundie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #15 on: 05/12/2010 at 18:15 »
Dave, I fish that beat on the Ythan now and again and you wont really need any fancy lines. The 9ft rod is a little restricting, there is a lot of weeds at the edge of the bank which extend out into the river, but you will manage to fish many of the pools. You will be restricted to overhead casting with that outfit, as you cant wade and the weeds at the rivers edge will catch your loop if you try to speycast with the shorter rod. This again is no real problem, you dont need to cast very far. For that rod I would buy a standard weight forward line, it does not have to be anything special, a mill end will do if you are operating to a budget. Cut the first couple of foot off the front of the line and whip a loop on the tip. This will remove the level piece of line at the tip and a little of the front taper and will make it easier the turn over polyleaders which you loop to the tip. A range of polyleaders or versi-tips will allow you to adjust the depth you are fishing at, also have flies of different weights from doubles to copper tubes which will further enable you to fine tune the depth you are fishing. With this you should be able to fish the beat in a low or medium water, but you will be a bit undergunned in high water, a double hander and sinking line is more suitable for this. For books, the Crawford Little one recommended by Hamish is very good, the Falkus one is quite sound with the advise, if a little dated nowadays. Other ones I would recommend are the books by Alexander Baird Keichy, they are a bit more up to date.

What length/weight of rod would you suggest for both low and high water on the ythan?

Graham Ritchie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #16 on: 06/12/2010 at 08:36 »
The single hander is fine for low water work but I would go for a 14ft rod for medium or high water, it will give you the length to roll cast and will also handle sinking lines and larger flies with more ease.

Hamish Young

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #17 on: 06/12/2010 at 10:07 »
I'd agree with that, a 14ft, or maybe a 13'6", is a nice size rod for many of the rivers of the NE when you need a bit more 'ooomph' over a single hander. OK, it does mean an investment in the bigger rod, reel, lines etc but that need not break the bank and is an investment in your enjoyment, especially if you're canny and buying second-hand or maybe new in the January sales/clearances.......  :z17

:z3

Dave Mundie

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #18 on: 07/12/2010 at 18:20 »
Thanks for the advise guys.
Just don't know what to do for the best, the wife wants to get me something for xmas, but as I've never Fly fished a river before let alone for salmon I'm wondering if I should just stick with the rod I've got (get a reel with drag for it) until I have got a feel for what to do.

Dave

Hamish Young

Re: Salmon Rod
« Reply #19 on: 07/12/2010 at 18:36 »
For me, half of the pleasure of fishing has always been just 'going and doing' so perhaps you've nailed it - get a nice reel that will last for a few years, go and 'play' by the river and learn from experience  :cool:

There's plenty of good support and advice available from the forum members, someone local to you may even offer to come along with you for a day and point you in the right direction  :z17 Some instruction is a good thing and money well spent - so that might be an idea for a Christmas/birthday pressie in time. I'd look at some of the suggested books during the close season, a very good way to prepare yourself for the coming year :z16
As you develop your skills you can work out for yourself what you need/want in terms of tackle, but I think we've pointed you in the right direction :wink

:z3

 




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