[Gerard Danou]

Hi ! I am gerard from Paris and I hope that all of you are in good health!!!!
So we may without danger to talk fishing.
Can you explain me the difference between a light switch rod (I have got an oracle 11ft 7-8 with Barrio lines and it seems to me perfect for small salmons and for trout fishing with 2 or 3 flies) ) and the new 11 ft trout spey ???? Only business or realy interesting rod?  (For example Skytouch troutspey 11ft 3WT - 100Pounds...)   
Thank you for your precious advice
Take care before tight lines
Gérard

[Euan Innes]

Gerard,
Think of it this way. A salmon "switch rod" is really a light double hand rod. A  11'6" #8 light double hander is my heaviest salmon rod, my other light double hander being a 11'6" #5 for the low water, summer salmon.
A Trout Spey is partly clever marketing, partly a nice useful trout rod. The average trout is 0.5kg but sometimes they still want a large meal. A #3 rod is perfect for small trout (and large ones! ) that want a larger, heavier meal. Want to throw a Wooly Bugger or a Sculpin for small trout and still have fun? Trout Spey!
I  just wish they wouldn't call it the Trout Spey, but the clever marketing part means that they can capture the salmon anglers that use two handed rods and get them in to another market
I have an Orvis 10' #4 that throws an OPST Commando head and it is just great for small trout, large trout and anything else that comes along. It was a single hand rod until I got Sandy Nelson to change the reel seat and add the longer second handle. Some of the other guys here have just had Sandy make them light two handed rods and by all accounts they are really excellent.
So there you have it. Trout Spey = light, fun two handed rod for small trout.
Switch rod = Light two habd salmon rod.
More and more anglers are going lighter with the way they fish. Why not try it?

Euan

[Hamish Young]

Gérard,
Welcome to the forum 
For me Switch rods and Trout Spey are by and large the same thing, Switch rods are typically rated on the single handed line weight rod rating system and Trout Spey on the double hander.
So, take two 11' rods. 1st rod is an 11' #8wt Switch, 2nd rod is an 11' #5wt Trout Spey. The reality is the grain window they are designed to work with is largely the same when you add '3' to the Spey line weight. Confused No Good 
The grain weights are the key things to look at.
So if we say that a #8 Switch and a #5 Trout Spey are in the same grain window the difference comes down to rod action.
A lot of Switch rods are, in reality, short double handers and a significant market proportion are quite stiff rods. The Trout Spey are (well the three that I have tried) softer in nature which is, perhaps, where you might say they are 'Trout' in nature.
To have or have not... that is the question 

H

[Gerard Danou]

Thank youso much Euan and Hamish for your explications. So, if I want to make a summary in a few words and simplify the problem of course, Trout spey rod (11ft) is a switch rod very light and funny to cast for catching small fish in large rivers! So, I'll see forward if I buy one or not!
Gérard

[Will Shaw]

Mmm... not so sure about switch rods being rated for single handed lines Hamish? My McKenzie Switch definitely needs a #7 Scandi Short.

The other thing is, I don’t think trout Spey is for small trout. My 11ft #3 is a fantastic small river salmon and sea trout rod. Remember a #3 Spey line weighs the same as a chunky #6 or #7  trout line (think #7 SLX). Stick a “Trout Spey Skagit” (horrible name!) on it and it’ll chuck most things.

I think even a #1 or #2 trout Spey will easily cope with decent trout.

Cheers

Will

[Hamish Young]

Mmm... not so sure about switch rods being rated for single handed lines Hamish? My McKenzie Switch definitely needs a #7 Scandi Short.

Aye, that's fair comment Will - I suppose it's my short hand. What I should have said is that most switch lines are rated as one thing (grain weight) and compare to something else (grain weight) and the whole line rating system is perhaps at odds with that. I like grain weights - can you tell - makes life simple

The other thing is, I don’t think trout Spey is for small trout. My 11ft #3 is a fantastic small river salmon and sea trout rod. Remember a #3 Spey line weighs the same as a chunky #6 or #7  trout line (think #7 SLX). Stick a “Trout Spey Skagit” (horrible name!) on it and it’ll chuck most things.

I think even a #1 or #2 trout Spey will easily cope with decent trout.

Agreed, they say Trout Spey but all it really is is a light line Spey. I considered a 'Trout Spey' as an armoury addition but I really don't need one (yet) as I have a Sage Method Switch to get to know better.
That said, who knows what I'll need in 2021

[Euan Innes]

So maybe we can just say that, regardless of nomenclature, a two handed rod obeys the laws of grainity and can cast what it is meant to cast, regardless of line type. But if you want to throw a large fly to a small fish a certain amount of grain weight is required to throw it. If large fish want to eat the large fly, let battle commence.
God I love fly fishing!
Two handed rods have their place regardless of species, just try and fish as light as you can 
My heaviest salmon was on a single hander #5, in the dark, on the Dee. Best fight ever 
Euan

[Gerard Danou]

Dear Hamish,
You said that about lines : " Switch rods are typically rated on the single handed line weight rod rating system and Trout Spey on the double hander." Is it the case of the ShakespeareOracle Switch 7-8. very good casting with a Switch Barrio 25g ? And if a trout spey 11ft is specified of Line 3 what might be its weight???
Thank you Hamish
Have a good day
Gérard
Excuse please my english sometimes a bit scholar!!!

[James Laraway]

Hi Gerard

A few years ago I bought ( 2nd hand) a Zpey Reel Steel switch rod.

Its 9ft and rated for a #6 line  or 14.5g.

When i bought it it came with a 14.5g shooting head. As i was more overhead than spey casting i bought a Barrio SLX rated #6 for it and ever looked back - as it cast wonderfully. It  ended up being my 'main' trout rod. The beauty of it is that is has a detachable lower handle - so if you don't need it you done have it on.

regards
James

[Gerard Danou]

Hi James! Thank you for your post very interesting . I have got all the barrio switch and 3 Iss lines.... now I shall have a look at the SLX.
Very good idea.
Best regards
Gérard

[Will Shaw]

Hi Gerard

To be clear, Switch rods aren't rated on single-handed lines. If you have a Switch rod that says #7 on it then it'll work best with a #7 Switch or Scandi-type line, which is way heavier than a #7 trout line.

My MacKenzie 11ft #8 Switch works well with a 33ft 28g head, and it'll do well with a 32g too. From memory, the Shakespeare Oracle liked the same lines.

My 11ft #3 Trout Spey works beautifully with a #7 SLX at 15g (33ft), and a #3 Rio Trout Spey at 17g (23ft). Like most rods it'll work with lines a size either way (I thought the #6 SLX was too light though!  ) depending on what feel you want in the rod.

Hope this helps.

Will

[James Laraway]

here are some photos from my setup

The detachable reel seat is superb. VERY secure and takes seconds to get on and off.

You can see the line ratings / weights.









As you can see from Will's comments above go with what it says on the rod. Most manufacturers abide my what Will points out - Zpey were always a little different

[Will Shaw]

That’s really interesting James. I’d love a try of the Z-Speys.

If ever a system needed reform, it’s rod and line ratings. 

Me? I’d just go with grams and head length, and leave it at that. Then I’d get rod manufacturers to supply some proper guidance on what weight lines in what circumstances (i.e. different head lengths) work best on their rods. I find it surprising that you can spend £800 on a rod and get no guidance as to what lines to put on it...

Cheers

W.

[James Laraway]

That’s really interesting James. I’d love a try of the Z-Speys.

I think that the way the butt attaches to the reel seat is genius. With the rod you get the large butt ( see photos) and a 'short button one' - so you can put on what you need.

This rod is a good few years old - from when Henrik Mortensen ran the company. I'm guessing they went into adminstration for a bit before being re-started.

Henrik Mortensen then started salmologic.

Sadly i don't think either company do a rod like this any more....

saying that there is one on ebay at the moment but its an #8. I think originally they did a #6, #7 and an #8.

Lovely rod. I picked it up 2nd hand ( like new)

[Euan Innes]

James,
The Salmologic Serenity series has a 9'9" rod like yours and everything is measured in grams and grains. I would like a Salmologic rod but they are a bit above my pay grade in these current climes.
Some manufacturers are moving towards GnG, like Vision, and it is the only way forward. My Tools come with a gram range and that suits me just fine. So far all the lines I have purchased have been spot on. The old guard seem to want to hang on to line numbers, especially Hardy. Move with the times people, move with the times.

Euan

[James Laraway]

James,
The Salmologic Serenity series has a 9'9" rod like yours and everything is measured in grams and grains. I would like a Salmologic rod but they are a bit above my pay grade in these current climes.

Euan

and Zpey do a Zwitch for 16-18g  ( the serenity being 16g) so both start at a about a #7

The Zpey is north of 500 Euro and for a salmologic you can add at least an extra 100 euro like you say....

Dont get me wrong, im sure they are both lovely rods but too much for my pocket too 

[Will Shaw]

FWIW mine is an Orvis Clearwater 11ft #3. (full disclosure - I do a bit of work for Orvis now and again - but do have a lot of non-Orvis rods too  )

Works nicely!